Talk:Dorset/Archive 1

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  • This is a featured article, yet theres hardly any discussion on the talk page, unusual! LordHarris 02:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
  • I suppose this article isn't very contraversial then, or at least that people seem to be happy with it! Rossenglish 18:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Strange names

    • I'm pretty sure there isn't, but there are villages in Dorset called Happy Bottom, Burnt Bottom, Scratchy Bottom, Piddletown and Droop. 86.142.110.249 17:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Flag of Dorset

Apparently Drayton*'s poem Agincourt says:

"A silver tower Dorset's red banner bears,/ The Cornishmen two wrestlers had for theirs"

But there is nothing about this in the article.

(* Michael Drayton (1563 – 23 December 1631) ) --MacRusgail 12:54, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Perhaps you could make a sentence up with this in it, and find a source for it. Then it would make an excellent addition to the article. Incidentally, the idea of a Dorset flag is a hot topic at the moment =) Rossenglish 15:00, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Well, I've already mentioned one. A very different one is on sale here, [1] --MacRusgail 16:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
      • That's interesting that flag you have shown us the link to on that website, it is not the offical flag of the County of Dorset and I am very surprised to see it. It features part of the official coat of arms of the County, its legal status I don't know but is probaly a flag used for marketing purposes. I have seen other examples of such flags used in that way but as it features parts of the offical coat of arms I am not at all sure of its legal status. Paulw99 (talk) 00:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Virtle Rock

Could someone integrate a mention or wikilink to Virtle Rock into this article, or a related article? It is currently an orphan. Cheers. -- Reaper X 05:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not notable enough for the Dorset article, but you could perhaps mention it in Lyme Bay or Jurassic Coast? Joe D (t) 16:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


Length of lead

The lead of this article is way to wordy if you know what I mean it takes way too much space to explain what the article is about and it should be shortened

Featured? Yikes! Kidshare (talk) 09:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you saw a temporary vandalised version that I can't find, but if you mean the current revision, than I think you may be talking nonsense! It's a very consise and organised way of covering all of the most notable and basic facts. Too much space? Is this sarcasm? It's two medium-sized paragraphs: at the shorter end of what is expected from featured articles, though about right for the topic in question, I think. Joe D (t) 02:21, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Education

This section doesn't seem very appropriate for an encyclopedia as it is mostly about current exam results in various areas. Does anyone else agree that it should be cut substantially? Jon Rob (talk) 11:14, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree, a lot of English county articles have had education sections added recently. When someone put one on this article, I tried to clean it up a bit, but yes it is a bit irrelevant. Rossenglish (talk) 14:26, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Sport

I may be missing something here, but there seems to be virtually nothing mentioned about sport in Dorset. I know that there are not that many major football teams from Dorset, but it is surely worth mentioning the Poole Pirates Speedway team. They are one of the best supported teams in the Elite League and I am certain that they have won it at least once. TheTrojanHought (talk) 13:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps some info could be gleaned from individual settlement articles, like Poole, Weymouth etc. Rossenglish (talk) 14:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of sport in Dorset, you just need to know where to look, perhaps as a Dorset person I could give someone a heads up. In Bournemouth AFC Bournemouth are League 2 Football team. In Poole vollyball, gymnastics and trampolining are represented with the Wessex Vollyball club and Olga Gymnastics & Trampolining Club. Both clubs have teams/individuals of interest at both national and international status in their sports.

Moving to the other end of the County you have the Portland Sailing Academy which will also be the home for the 2012 Olympic sailing events.

Yacht and dingy racing features back the other end of Dorset in Poole Harbour and Poole Bay. Also in Poole Bay you get the International Powerboating with several comeptions throughout the year.

Also as a note Poole Speedway has a long and interesting history, may be another article in its own right and has won many prizes in that history.

I hope this is of a help as a heads up. If I have time over the holiday period I will attempt to write something if no one beats me to it. Paulw99 (talk) 23:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
The articles in Category:Sport in Dorset will probably help, and will provide an even spread of info. If you would like help I wouldn't mind; I've got some info about the Weymouth and Portland area. Rossenglish (talk) 18:50, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

It's really not on that the Poole Pirates don't get a mention. They one of, if not the biggest, Speedway teams in the country. They won the 2008 British Elite League last year. Mark Loram and Tony Rickardsson (x2) have both become individual speedway world champions while riding for Poole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.24.238.87 (talk) 21:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Erm.. you are missing something: Bournemouth and Weymouth football, the county cricket club, and the watersports are already mentioned. It wouldn't take much effort to add any other notable organisations to that paragraph. Joe D (t) 02:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes quite so. All that is needed is an even spread I s'pose. Merry Christmas Joe and Paul! Rossenglish (talk) 11:01, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Question: History

When you say that "the chalk downs would have been deforested in these times, making way for farmland", do you refer only to the Iron Age or to the Neolithic, the Bronze Age and the Iron Age? And what did those first settlers do on that farmland—agricultural activities, animal husbandry or both? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.117.235.32 I think you should make that clearer. (talk) 15:57, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I don't personally know when the deforestation was; I didn't write that bit and don't know who did, but the sentence seems to infer that it occurred in the Iron Age. About what those settlers did, it is almost certainly both husbandry and agriculture. I will make that clearer. Thanks Pablo =) Rossenglish (talk) 17:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
If anyone else knows more about the early history of Dorset, their knowledge would be welcome. I'll alter the article for clarity, but if I make a mistake, then feel free to correct it. Rossenglish (talk) 17:46, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Question II: Vespasian

In the year 54 AD Vespasian was not the Roman Imperor. Does somebody know if he was a military, a general, a politician or what when he captured the Maiden Castle? It may be important that the article contain that information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.117.235.32 (talk) 02:06, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The Maiden Castle article says "The site may have been attacked and invested by the 2nd and the 8th legion under Vespasian in AD 43." The Vespasian article says that he ruled from 9AD to 79AD. I'll change the date and clarify the sentence. Rossenglish (talk) 09:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Are you sure that Vespasian was the Roman Imperor in 54 AD? In the article about him in the Spanish Wikipedia, it says that he was born in 9 AD and became the Roman Imperor in 69 AD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 14:24, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
If those two legions were under his leadership, he might have been a militar in 43 AD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 14:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Hmmmm I really don't know. I'll try and find some external info on Vespasian and Maiden castle and sort out what's true and what's not. When I know I'll post it here and change the article. Rossenglish (talk) 15:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
http://www.maidencastle.com says that "In AD43 it was taken by the Roman army and its inhabitants moved to the new town of Durnovaria, modern Dorchester."
http://www.historic-uk.com/DestinationsUK/MaidenCastle.htm says that "At the time of the Roman invasion in 43 AD, Maiden Castle was inhabited by the Durotriges tribe. The battle to take the castle was a bloody one: the Romans under Vespasian finally victorious."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/vespasian.shtml says that Vespasian was born in 9AD, and was in command of the second legion in AD43 when he conquered Maiden castle. He became emperor in AD69 as you said. Rossenglish (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll change the history section and add some of these references. Thanks for pointing this issue out =) Rossenglish (talk) 15:59, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Question III: References

There are almost no references in the section about history and in the first part of the section about physical geography. Could someone provide that information? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 15:11, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll try and add some when I'm not busy, but I may not be able to find references for some information as I don't know where the original authors researched it. If any fellow editors do have some good info sources it would be very helpful. Rossenglish (talk) 16:10, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
When I have time I'll have a look at the external links, and try and get hold of the books mentioned in the references section – to add in-line citations where they agree. Rossenglish (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Question IV: Domesday Book

When the article says "There have been few changes to the parishes since the Domesday Book", does it mean that there have been few changes to the parishes since the Domesday Book was written or that there have been few changes to the parishes according to the Domesday Book? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 15:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Both I assume, as the parishes would be correct as of the time the book was written. That sentence could do with a reference. Rossenglish (talk) 16:12, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
And what does it refer to—to the parishes' extension, to the pariches' boundaries...? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 16:45, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Both boundaries and extension are changes, as are others like the total number of parishes, or their management – so the sentence infers that there was very little change of any sort. I will check that that is what is meant if I can find a reference. Rossenglish (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Question V: Landowners

I don't understand this sentence. Could someone explain it to me. Thanks. "Over the next few centuries the settlers established the pattern of farmland which prevailed into the nineteenth century, as well as many monasteries, which were important landowners and centres of power." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 16:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The sentence needs rewording. What it means is "Over the next few centuries the settlers established the pattern of farmland which prevailed into the nineteenth century. Many monasteries were also established, which were important landowners and centres of power." I'll change this now. Thank you! Rossenglish (talk) 18:07, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for answering, but what I didn't understand is the meaning of "pattern of farmland" and "which were important landowners and centres of power." According to what I know a landowner is someone who owns a piece of land, so I can't find out the meaning of the second sentence you wrote there above. The monasteries were important centres of powers, isn't it? But which was the relation between those monateries and the landowners? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 18:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The point is that the monasteries were major landowners until the reformation. --Charles (talk) 18:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

So, what you mean is that the land where the monasteries were built, had belonged to landowners in the past, isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 00:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

That's not what I mean. The monasteries had aquired huge areas of land, given to them by people wanting prayers for the departed soul. They managed the land and many industrial enterprises like modern corparations and were some of the largest and most powerful institutions of the time. They were landowners until King Henry VIII dissolved them and siezed their assets. --Charles (talk) 09:36, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


Question VI: Civil War

In the section about history, what 12th century civil war does the text refers to—The Anarchy or the Revolt of 1173–1174? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.82.53.126 (talk) 17:03, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I can't seem to find out – the websites about those castles don't mention anything in the 12th century. I'll keep on looking though.
I think that what this article needs is someone who knows more about local history and Dorset in general – I only really know about Weymouth and Portland. Someone else will know though – hopefully soon. Rossenglish (talk) 18:38, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Question VII: Indigenous people

What do you refer to when you say that 98.8% of Dorset's population is indigenous—that they are of white ethnicity? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 14:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

That would mean indigenous to the UK -so yes, White British. I'll clarify this. =) Rossenglish (talk) 15:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
The sentence before that one said almost the same thing, so I just removed the 98.8% one. Rossenglish (talk) 15:07, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Question VIII: 34 English counties

In the section about demography, what kind of counties do you refer to when you say that Dorset has the lowest birth rate of the 34 English counties? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 15:09, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

That is the 34 'shire' counties of England. [2] I'll change this and update all the demographics now, with references, so there should (!) be no contradictions. Rossenglish (talk) 15:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
In the article about the shire counties it says that there are 35 shire counties in England. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 17:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Question IX: People of white ethnicity

In the article about Weymouth it says that 98.7% of Dorset's population are of white ethnicity, while in this article it says that 98.8% are indigenous people. Aren't "people of white ethnicity" and "indigenous people" the same thing in this context? Isn't there a contradiction?

Yes, correct. The Weymouth data (which I know more of, as author) is more up to date - I remember updating it from 98.8 to 98.7. I must have forgot to update this article too. I'll do it now.Rossenglish (talk) 15:36, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I see the demographics section has little references, so I will change the data to agree with the references that I have, and will add them to the text. Rossenglish (talk) 15:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I've tried to update the data which I have info for, and provided refs for each, but I may have still missed something. If you see anything, just say and I'll try and fix it =) Rossenglish (talk) 15:59, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Question X: Net population growth

Isn't it 17,3? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes it is 17,3 - 17,3% is far to high - that's nearly 1/5 more people!. =)Rossenglish (talk) 19:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XI: Politics

What does this sentece mean?: In the event, the seat went against the national trend and Mr Knight's majority increased slightly on a swing from the Conservatives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 22:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

This means that Mr Knight (Labour) gained votes, and the Conservatives lost a few. This is against the national average (but not unique), where Labour votes decreased slightly. Rossenglish (talk) 19:16, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XII: Economy

What are the statistics regions of South West England? The article should explain it or there should be a link to another artivle that does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 23:10, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I've added links to South West England and its regions, of which there are now 15 (three new ones). Rossenglish (talk) 19:22, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XIII: GVA per person

If the populations and GVAs of the non-metropolitan county of Dorset and of Poole & Bournemouth are as similar as the article explain, how can the the GVA per person for Dorset be £6,671 and the one for Poole & Bournemouth £15,683? There is a huge difference. If the populations and the GVAs of both areas are similar, the GVAs per person should be similar. There is a mistake somewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.76.225 (talk) 01:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I did a quick calculation: 4 705 000 000 / (165 370 + 137 562) = 15 532 GVA per person in Poole and Bournemouth.
For Dorset: 4 673 000 000 / 407 217 = 11 475 GVA per person. These seem more likely. I'll update the article with these new figures. Thanks for reminding me Pablo! Rossenglish (talk) 10:05, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XIV: Cattle

When you talk about the cattle, do you refer to the quantity of animals in the county?

Yes – I have clarified the sentence. =) Rossenglish (talk) 19:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XV: Dorset County Hospital

Would you say that a hospital founded in 1840 is new? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.252.217.197 (talk) 15:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The hospital it replaced was built in 1840 – but Dorset County Hospital was formed in 1998 after extending the old building. I've added this to the sentence. Rossenglish (talk) 19:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XVI: Tourism

When you say that foreign declined in 2002, are you comparing the quantity of tourists for other countries in that year with the quantity in 2001? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.252.217.197 (talk) 16:12, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I put the year in =) Rossenglish (talk) 19:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Not convinced about the statistics, other websites I've consulted (www.dorsetforyou.com) have said that the revenue from tourism was £194million, not £774million as given in the artical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.78.174.8 (talk) 11:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Do you have links to the other websites? If you do, the figures can be changed and references can be added (which this article is lacking). BarretBonden (talk) 15:44, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Question XVII: Burial mounds

Could anyone explain me the meaning of "burial mounds"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.30.79.139 (talk) 23:05, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Usually circular mounds of earth, surrounded by a circular ditch, used for burials in the Bronze Age or late Neolithic age, found mainly on hills. Marked as "tumuli" on maps.--Charles (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Question XVIII: Regions of South West England

Aren't they sixteen? The Scilly Islands aren't shown in the map of the article about SW England. --Pabletex (talk) 17:58, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes you are right - I thought it was 15 as the Scilly Isles had no number and weren't on the map! Thank you =) I see you've got an English user page - good idea! Rossenglish (talk) 19:34, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Dorchester and fisticuffs?

Gak has removed "place of fisticuffs" from History as vandalism. The 1st paragraph is either complete bollocks and should be removed or it was not vandalism. As a non Welsh speaker I cannot comment, and the citation given does not work, but it does look like a spoof.--Charles (talk) 16:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you think it would be different to contact a native Welsh speaker tho ask him/her the meaning of those words? It may not be vandalism and, in that case, and important piece of information would have been removed. We need to admit that the etymology of the word "Dorset" is really important in this article. --Pabletex (talk) 01:28, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I have just asked some Welsh wikipedists about words Dwrn and gwarae's meanings. Now I'm waiting for their answers. Pabletex (talk) 01:45, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm fairly sure that when I was reading the history of Dorchester/Durnovaria that there was some mention of the 'Place of Fisticuffs' - but this was refuted by someone else as it meant something else. When I get home, I'll have a look in the book. white43 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.195.146.94 (talk) 13:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

County's area

The introduction says that Dorset covers an area of 2.652 km2, whil the List of ceremonial counties of England by area says it covers an area of 2.653 km2. Does anyone know the exact area? --Pabletex (talk) 01:23, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

It is 2653 km2. The mistake came from converting to miles2 then back again with the Template:Convert. Thanks Pablo =) RossEnglish 12:37, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Demographics

According to the information in the reference website, East Sussex does not have a higher proportion of eldery people. --Pabletex (talk) 16:19, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes you're right - it must have been updated since the article was written - I'll change the sentence now =) RossEnglish 17:30, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

County's area II

Does anyone know what percentage Dorset's area represents in England's? --Pabletex (talk) 22:39, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

It can be calculated like this: England has an area of 130 395 km² Dorset has an area of 2 653 km²

2653/130395 x 100 = 2.04% So Dorset represents 2.03% of the area of England. RossEnglish 11:54, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Flag of Dorset

I've removed the flag as this is not an official flag, nor has it been sanctioned or endorsed. It is one of at least 20 contenders that are trying to become the Flag of Dorset, admittedly the highest profile. This box should be left empty until a new flag is selected. White43 (talk) 15:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I've now added the flag back in as it was selected yesterday - registered here : http://www.flaginstitute.org/index.php?location=10&flagtype=county&flagid=103 White43 (talk) 09:17, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

78% of the population are Christian?

Sorry but where does this statistic come from? Honestly this is a ridiculous statement to make, especially without citing your sources and evidence from which you based this fact. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 20:55, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree that 78% is a very high figure, but that isn't really a matter for Wikipedia but for national statistical organisations. I would guess that most people said that they are Christian but only went to church for weddings etc. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Amazingly, the 2001 Census said that 71.6% of Britons call themselves 'Christian', so the 78% figure isn't that unusual by UK standards.[3]
I don't know why the original contributor of the data neglected to source it, but I found the figures used at DorsetForYou - 304 500 / 390 980 * 100 = 77.9%. I'll add the reference - regardless of its truthfulness, it is the official 2001 Census data, so the most legitimate possible. RossEnglish 21:14, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Okay, at first sight (over a year ago (I know I'm a late replier...!)) it looked as if it was someone's first impressions of a traditional county or something. I can see why it was the case now. MasterOfHisOwnDomain (talk) 16:12, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Dorset discussion forum?

Hi, could somebody link a discussion forum on Dorset to this webpage? I am thinking about moving there but I'm struggling to find a discussion forum where I can ask locals about the area. I haven't got a clue about the place but I need to quickly. Thanks. 86.44.57.55 (talk) 19:33, 23 February 2010 (UTC)