Talk:Druze

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Separate religion[edit]

While Druze evolved from Shia Islam, Druze are generally not considered to be Muslims, but a separate religion related to Gnosticism and Yazdanism. They are considered to be an independent religion. Throughout this article, it maintains that Druze are just a branch of Shia Islam which is not true. That is like saying Christianity is a branch of Judaism. HamzaWahabi (talk) 14:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

but surely Christianity IS a branch of Judaism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.220.117.100 (talk) 23:05, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Druze are not Muslims[edit]

Since people have trouble reading through references

"The Druze do not:- practice recitation of the creed, reciting prayers five times a day, wed to multiple wives, fasting during the month of Ramadan and making a pilgrimage to Mecca. Thus, they are not regarded by Muslims as Islamic"

http://www.druze.org.au/religion/

"Though they believe Mohammed was from God, cannot be considered as Muslims any more than they can be Jews or Christians" http://www.muslimhope.com/Druze.htm

"“The Druzes re not Muslims,” wrote Peter Gubser, a mild enough judgement considering their glaring heterodox deviation.” This was indeed the view of Islamic scholar Ibn Taimiyah, who in his fatwa from 1300 rejected them as unfit for inclusion within the Muslim community."

Minorities in the Middle East: A History of Struggle and Self-Expression, 2d ed. By Mordechai Nisan

“Sunnis and Sia alike regard the Druze as heretics and usually do not consider them Muslims."

The Arab Americans By Randa A. Kayyali

"They do not perform the hajj, nor observe Ramadan and their religious writ, including the Kitab al hikma, contains both Quranic and non Quranic text passages, thus leading mainstream Msuslims to regard the Druze as not true Muslims."

Global Security Watch-Lebanon: A Reference Handbook: A Reference Handbook By David S. Sorenson

“These Druze and Nusairis are kaafirs, according to the consensus of the Muslims.” “Shaykh al Islam also said, refuting the ideas of some sects of Druze: The fact that these groups are kaafirs is something concerning which there is no dispute among the Muslims. Rather whoever doubts that they are kaafirs is a kaafir like them." Islam: Questions And Answers – Schools of Thought, Religions and Sects By Abdul-Rahman, Muhammed Saed

More sources

"The Druze are a peaceful, small religious sect who live in their own villages and are generally loyal to the governments of the countries in which they reside. In Israel they are members of the Israeli Defense Forces and have achieved high positions.

They are not Moslems and have their own holy book. There has never been a Druze terrorist or suicide bomber, yet for ISIS they are kafir (unbelievers) or takfir (apostates) and deserve death."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2015/07/16/druze-syria-united-states/30263643/

"Even though they are not Muslims, why do the Druze frequently present themselves as such? The answer is related to the fact that the Druze renounced Islam in the tenth century and consolidated a faith that stands in contradiction to Islam, leading to their being persecuted by Islam. In order to save themselves the Druze faith advocates taqqiya (dissimulation), a practice whereby the Druze conceal their true belief and outwardly (Zāhir) accept the dominant religious faith, while inwardly (Bātin) they continue to be true to the unique Druze faith, the belief in al- Hākim as the embodiment of god etc"

http://app.shaanan.ac.il/shnaton/15/14.pdf

“Our Lord has commanded us to hide in the dominant religion, be it what it may; with Christians, Christian; with Muslims, Muslim, and so on." A History of the Druzes, Volume 1 By Kais Firro

"The Druze as a religion is not a Muslim sect. It is a monotheistic, unitarian, neo-Platonian independent religion. We believe that the notion of universal equality has never escaped God’s mind. The Druze believe that the mind and the soul are two sides of the same coin. The reincarnation or transmigration of the soul, with human dying and being reborn, ensures that all humans live the same amount of time, but under different living conditions; in their next life humans “exchange” their living conditions. The Druze also maintain gender equality, outlaw polygamy and grant women full rights to seek divorce."

http://www.i24news.tv/en/opinion/75869-150623-i-cannot-stand-by-and-see-my-druze-brothers-slaughtered By Yakub Halabi (Druze Author)

HamzaWahabi (talk) 02:02, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Im a druze schoolar and yes we are muslims. We preform salat at least 5 times a day, thus we do not pray towards mecca. Hajj is preformed by some though it is not a law. We preform ramadan(the uqqal) And we belive in the shahada, la illah illa allah muhammad rasoul allah. I should also point out that we do not regard caliph al hakim bi'amr allah as god incarnate. We reject that completley. We belive that al hakim reached a high level of purity in soul(after hundreds of reincarnation) and thus he was a link from earth to the cosmic mind( al aql) The quran and torah are our holy books. Our own scriptures are about morality and about the holy quran Allah knows best Sofianeabijomaah (talk) 21:49, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Question? Archived sources still need to be checked

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Poor English in Section "Pact of Time Custodian"[edit]

The quotation from the "Pact of Time Custodian", is in very poor English, and should be replaced by a better translation. It begins in the first person, but switches immediately to the third. The phrases, "God . . . who is out of couples and numbers;" and "permissibility aversive is obedient and not forced" make no sense. Many of the expressions employed are not idiomatic (e.g., "the lonely God", "to repudiate from all creeds", and "he does not know something"). Others are just wrong (e.g., "in a healthy of his mind and his body", and "beliefs on the differences varieties"). The use of the past perfect tense in the last sentence ("he had handed") is also incorrect.

The accompanying text is no better. Even the title, "Pact of Time Custodian" makes no sense in English: does it refer to a (or the) custodian of time? Or is "custodian" an adjective describing time? (Cf. "time immemorial".) If the former, is the "custodian of time" the person who makes the declaration, or the one to whom the declaration is made?

A pact, moreover, is a reciprocal agreement, which must have more than one party. Is this a pact between the declarant ("I") and the "custodian of time"? Or between the declarant and "(someone) son of (someone)"? Should this "pact" instead be called an oath or an affirmation of faith? It is also referred to as a "Charter" (with an inappropriate capital C), which all Druzes are supposed to have "signed". This implies a physical document, but no such document is identified in the article.

The phrase "entrance to the Druze religion" is unidiomatic, and, in the context of a closed religion, seems absurd.

Finally, the section ends with a reference to "the ʻUqqāl", a foreign term not defined until much later. It should be defined (or at least linked to a definition) the first time it appears.

Most of the article seems to need improvement in its English, but this section really stands out. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 20:50, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Any news?[edit]

So there is nothing about the ongoing civil war in Syria. To this not consern them? Do they support a side? What do ISIL or Al-Nushra(?) think of them. I have never heard about this group before. But This is questions that comes to mind when reading the article. Section modern history in Syria ends in 1967.

If someone know, pleace update the article. That would make it so much more relavant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sectarianism_and_minorities_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War#Druze http://www.the-american-interest.com/2015/06/26/the-syrian-civil-war-comes-to-the-druze/ This has some info. But I don't know how to edit wikipedia.

--128.39.131.128 (talk) 15:04, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

This should answer your questions: http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/the-massacre-of-druze-villagers-in-qalb-lawza-idlib-province/ FunkMonk (talk) 15:06, 2 March 2016 (UTC)