Talk:Ducat

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Bad words[edit]

A phrase like To make it more confusing" shouldn't really be found in an encyclopedia. --209.162.8.244 18:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

IPA[edit]

I just wanted to leave a word of explanation for why I changed /ˈdʌ·kʰətʰ/ to /ˈdʌkət/. First, aspiration is subphonemic in English, so it doesn't belong in a phonemic transcription to begin with. (Even on the phonetic level, it would not necessarily belong: speakers of Indian or South African English omit the aspiration regularly. I myself, a North American, might aspirate /k/ but not /t/.) Also, the syllable division used the wrong phonetic syllable (it's properly just a period/full stop); and since the /k/ would technically be ambisyllabic, positing a syllable division seems to me as though it would just muddy the waters. QuartierLatin1968 El bien mas preciado es la libertad 19:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Purchasing power[edit]

Does anyone have any information on the purchasing power of a ducat? Examples of historical purchases of land, ships, etc. would be excellent. 130.226.217.201 (talk) 12:30, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I think this could go into the article:

In the book "Bárándy Gergely: Velence fénykora - a velencei köztársaság államberendezkedésének kialakulása és kora" (Gergely Barandy: Golden age of Venice - formation of the venetian republic state establishment, printed 1999, Scolar House, Budapest, Hungary, ISBN: 963-9193-22-4) on pages 79-81, there is a collection of useful real-world examples for valuation of the "zecchino" venetian gold ducat, which was the industry standard coin of foreign trade, especially in oriental commerce, for so many centuries.

Technical note: the minting is given in metric units as 105 ducats = 367.41 grams of gold.

Year 1341: the two venetian procurators commissioned to oversee reconstruction of the Doge's Palace earned 80-80 ducats a year.

1346: Venezia proposed a lump sum payment of 100.000 ducats to King Louis I. of Hungary, in exchange for handing over the adriatic port city of Zara. The offer was refused.

1379: During the War of Chioggia, Genoa and Hungary militarily blockaded the venetian's lagoon, demanded submission and a cash ransom of 1.000.000 million gold ducats for peace.

1380: all merchant and commoner status venetian citizens who donated 40.000 ducats for emergency expenses in the Chiogga War, were granted full family nobility of the third tier and had their crest included in the official "Golden Book" of venetian genealogy. The 30 commoner families who donated the most, became known as the aggregati and received nobility of the second tier, which made them eligible to run for even the most prestigious public offices.

1400: Venice state debts, accumulated during the wars against Genoa, were at 4 million ducats. (Fully re-paid by 1423.)

1423: The highly detailed, official last will of doge Tommaso Mocenigo enumerates the total commercial capital of Venezia at 10 million ducats. Public and private and revenues from export amounted to 4 million ducats per year, import revenues were 2 million. Income from spice trade was 540.000 ducats and the cotton industry produced 400.000 ducats per year. Entire yearly state revenue of the Serenissima Republic was 1.410.000 ducats, owing to the peaceful period.

At the same time, over 1.000 venetian noblemen had private revenues of 1.000 to over 4.000 ducats per year. All real estate within the lagoon city were valued at a total of 7 million ducats. A palazzo on a lot by the Canal Grande waterfront cost 3.000 ducats, a grand casa situated on a lesser canal went for about 1.000 ducats.

early 1500s: Of the yearly revenues of the Serenissima Republic, 330.000 ducats came from the Terra Ferma (venetian held area of the italian mainland) and overseas colonies contributed a further 220.000 ducats. A venetian noble could buy his way into the 300 member strong Senate for 1000 to 2000 ducats. (This simony-like practice was outlawed in 1531.)

1600s: a heavy war galley cost 55.000 ducats to build, a light patrol galley 15.000 ducats. The venetian military shipyard Arsenale spent a yearly 80.000 ducats on raw materials and 130 to 140.000 ducats on labourer wages. The admiral of shipyard earned 240 ducats a year, the highest sum among those in state employment. His three deputies for cannon-casting, timber and rope works were each paid 130 ducats a year.

Veteran Murano glass making specialists retiring from public employment were granted a lump alimony of 70 ducats for their old days.

1612: A new kind of large venetian silver coin named "zecchino d'argento" was introduced, weighing 45.5 grams. It was declared equal to the "zecchino d'oro" (one gold ducat) by power of law. In practice, this 1:13 weight exchange rate could not be maintained, owing to the ever-broadening supply of silver ore.

1729: a new 168-oarsmen Bucintoro state galley is constructed for the venetian doge's ceremonial purposes. After launching, the ship was beautified with carvings, fine drapery and gold ornaments at the expense of 18.000 ducats. (Upon fall of Venice, Napoleon's troops stripped this last Bucintoro to hulk in 1798, removing 400 mules' load of luxury items in the process). 82.131.134.75 (talk) 21:36, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Dead Links[edit]

Both links in this article need to be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.147.240.137 (talk) 15:55, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

what centurat was these in?[edit]

what cenury were these in? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.60.14 (talk) 16:25, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

The gold Bull?[edit]

This sentence in the article confuses me. : " The Golden Bull of Charles IV gave to all members of the empire the privilege of issuing gold coins, with any stamp they chose; but these were only gold guilders, equivalent to the florin. "

If this was not a permit to mint ducats, but florins, why is this mentioned here at all? Not to mention that at 3.5g fine gold, the florin is, if not perfectly equivalent, slightly better than the ducat anyway. Should it be erased? --Svartalf (talk) 00:17, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Sometimes the words florin and ducat were used interchangeably, depending on source and the actual coins, which is probably why it's here. I don't know what it's referring to with the "but these were..." Volunteer Marek 22:57, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

An English translation of the Golden Bull of Charles IV can be found at http://avalon.law.yale.edu/medieval/golden.asp. Section 10 does grant the elector princes the right to mint gold and silver money but neither ducats, florins, nor guilders are mentioned anywhere in it. I agree that the sentence is not relevant to this article. EcuPadic (talk) 18:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Imperial Sanction[edit]

The article says "Ducats became a standard gold coin throughout Europe, especially after they were officially imperially sanctioned in 1566. The ducat remained sanctioned until 1857." Does "imperially sanctioned" mean sanctioned by the Holy Roman Empire? Since the Holy Roman Empire ended in 1806, that interpretation is not supported by the second sentence. In any event I cannot find any reliable reference for this statement, although it is widely quoted on the web. Can anyone explain and justify the dates given here. EcuPadic (talk) 22:12, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Until 1806, mostly the Habsburgs were the Holy Roman Emperors, either the spanish or the austrian branch. When Napoleon's conquests ramped up, the austrian Habsburgs had to renounce the Holy Roman title, but they refashioned themselves as "Austrian Emperors", claiming they were still "king of kings" as the royal crowns of Hungary and Bohemia continued to belong to them. In 1815 the austrian Habsburg Empire also got control of the former Venetian Republic and they promptly started to mint genuine ducats at the venetian Zecca, but with the emperors head on it. 82.131.134.75 (talk) 21:46, 7 February 2015 (UTC)