Talk:Dutch language

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Word order: interrogative[edit]

I think the word order of the interrogative main clause should be mentioned, as it (at least in its simplest form) constitutes an exception to both the SOV and V2 word orders as described. If this view is supported I could edit this myself but I'll gladly leave it to the original editor of 'Word order'; or, indeed, to anyone else who feels the need. Collideascope (talk) 18:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC) Added word order in interrogative clauses. Collideascope (talk) 20:34, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

History: remove 'Vorstermansbijbel'[edit]

I propose to remove the citation from the Vorstermansbijbel:

'want si waren onder veel teghen mi' means 'because they were amongst many against me'.

This is a different meaning from all other citations (which all read, essentially, 'because amongst many, he was with me'). Even if the Vorsterman translation (from the Vulgata) would in any way be arguably correct, it distracts from the linguistic comparison that is being made here.

Also, it looks like the Vorsterman citation has been inserted later and rather willy-nilly, without any consideration of context, as it spoils the flow and contents of the surrounding text. Collideascope (talk) 19:56, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I've removed the Vorstermansbijbel citation. Collideascope (talk) 18:53, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Spoken in[edit]

Currently South Africa is listed as a country where Dutch is spoken, with a parenthetical explanation that it is spoken "as Afrikaans". Is that really appropriate? I don't think we list other closely related languages this way. Since Afrikaans is officially and linguistically a separate language now I feel like this entry should be removed. Opinions? Dusty|💬|You can help! 16:28, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Agree, although the close relation in this case is that of a recent parent-daughter language so it is not a standard relation between the languages. Arnoutf (talk) 17:39, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Modern Dutch is not the parent of Afrikaans though, any more than modern British English is the parent of American English. Rather, they both diverged at some point in history and evolved distinctly since then. I suppose it's really the dialect or language debate again. Afrikaans is considered a separate language, but a lot of the varieties that are spoken in the Netherlands itself and are grouped under "Dutch" are often more distinct from standard Dutch than Afrikaans is. So from a linguistic perspective, not including Afrikaans under Dutch would make Dutch a paraphyletic grouping of dialects: a grouping of some, but not all descendants of a common parent. CodeCat (talk) 17:42, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
You're right, sorry for my Dutch centrism.
Standard Dutch is, as far as I know based on the Northern Hollandic dialect; in particular dialects close to Amsterdam. As Amsterdam was the main office of VOC, which founded the Cape Town colony, it is not very strange that Afrikaans is closer to Standard Dutch compared to other languages from the (at that time federal) Dutch republic. In the Dutch language, Low Saxon, Limburgish, Frisian are officially recognized as regional languages. Nevertheless in all Dutch regions, standard Dutch is the official language and generally understood. Arnoutf (talk) 19:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Netherlandish[edit]

Sometimes "Netherlandish" is proposed as a more proper word in English to refer to "Dutch", because of the confusion this word creates, not only amongst English native speakers, but also amongst everybody learning about the Dutch language through English as a second language, thus propagating this confusion (between "Dutch" and "Deutsch", mainly) worldwide. Maybe it would be an idea to include a heading about this alternative term. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joekiedoe (talkcontribs) 23:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

As far as I know, the language has always been referred to by English speakers as "Dutch", so how is there confusion? CodeCat (talk) 01:30, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Comment[edit]

"Dutch language, spoken in Aruba, Belgium, Curaçao, the Netherlands, Sint Maarten, and Suriname." Speling12345 (talk) 3:52, 13 December 2013 (UTC)