Talk:Eagle Woman

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Did you knowDYK comment symbol nomination

This review is transcluded from Template:Did you know nominations/Eagle Woman. You may review or comment on the nomination by clicking here.

  • ... that the Sioux's first and only female chief, Eagle Woman, was called "the most noted Indian woman of all the western Indian nations", aside from Sacagawea? Source: 1
    • ALT1:... that the Sioux's first and only female chief, Eagle Woman, helped her people adapt after they were forced onto reservations? Source: "When the Sioux War ended in the early 1880s, Eagle Woman again played an instrumental role in easing the transition to reservation living for her people." 1
    • ALT2:... that Eagle Woman, the first woman to become a chief among the Sioux, helped her people adapt after they were forced onto reservations? Source: "When the Sioux War ended in the early 1880s, Eagle Woman again played an instrumental role in easing the transition to reservation living for her people." 1 "Because these tribes were giving up their way of life, Mrs. Galpin adopted a new mission: “to help the Sioux to learn and to adapt.”" 2
    • ALT3:... that Eagle Woman, the first woman to become a chief among the Sioux, was called "the most noted Indian woman of all the western Indian nations", aside from Sacagawea? Source: 1
  • Reviewed: (in progress)
  • Comment: I think this article should be reviewed by someone who knows the right words for native/indigenous issues before DYK goes through. Also not sure about the hooks.

Created by Originalmess (talk). Self-nominated at 18:42, 21 August 2019 (UTC).

  • General eligiblity:

Policy compliance:

Hook eligiblity:

  • Cited: Red XN - Issues for ALT and ALT1: "first and only female chief" - the source states "the only woman to become a chief of the Sioux" but dates to 1986, so it is possible someone else has become a female chief since then. "first" would be acceptable based on the source cited. Issues for ALT: "the most noted Indian woman of all the western Indian nations" - the source refers to her as "Matilda Parkin", which appears to be the same person as "Matilda Galpin" and "Eagle Woman", but this "Matilda Parkin" naming of her is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article. 3) inconsistent spellings of "Sacagawea" (Wiki link name), "Sacajawea" (DYK nom) and "Sakakawea" (Eagle Woman article, source cited): use Sakakawea in article & DYK to resolve. Further review of ALT1: "adapt" is supported by the cited source.
  • Interesting: Green tickY

QPQ: Red XN - ?
Overall: Symbol redirect vote 4.svg Created on August 15, nominated August 21, 2019; Earwig does not report significant copyvios. QPQ pending. I agree that a culturally-sensitive review is desirable before release. Hooks need work. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 20:27, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

I think the phrase "chief of the Sioux" might be misunderstood to mean leadership over all the Sioux, but I'm not sure what a good alternative phrasing would be. Kim Post (talk) 14:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
  • I've rephrased the sentence to read "the first woman to become a chief among the Sioux" to address this. Mary Mark Ockerbloom (talk) 14:22, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Sorry about the late response, I should be free enough to do more editing/look for someone to do a culturally sensitive review a bit later tonight. Thanks for the rephrasing, that's definitely clearer for readers who don't know the Sioux had/have multiple chiefs at once. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 18:47, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
Added new hooks using Mary Mark Ockerbloom's phrasing. Does it sound hookier starting with "first woman" or with "Eagle Woman"? originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 19:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Question[edit]

While living at the fort, she adopted the settlers' lifestyle, but as Picotte often spent long periods of time away, she would return to her tribe.

@Originalmess: I'm not entirely sure what the "return to her tribe" is intended to mean here. Does it mean she would eventually physically return after she left the fort permanently, or that she would return during the periods she was away from the fort, or is it a reference to the settlers' lifestyle, "returning" in a more figurative/cultural sense? GMGtalk 17:35, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

GreenMeansGo During the times Picotte was away from the fort, she would also leave the fort to live with and make visits to various Lakota tribes IIRC, so she would physically return to the tribes and also return to the culture. I'll clarify that in a bit! originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 02:56, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, thanks for the copyedit and expansion!! I really wasn't sure if I was adding too much to the earlier sections (still planning on expanding the later ones with a source I haven't fully read yet) so it's good to see the material is worth including! originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 03:00, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Definitely an interesting subject. Do you happen to know if the trip she went on to Washington was the same one Red Cloud went on? GMGtalk 10:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
It was the same delegation Red Cloud went on, but it doesn't appear that the photographers felt her important enough to take a picture of [1], and it doesn't seem they took any group photo. GMGtalk 15:07, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Also this source on page 149 indicates that she did not sign the Standing Rock Treaty. So it seems we have a bit of a conflict in our information. GMGtalk 15:42, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Ok, looks like she didn't sign the 1876 treaty actually founding the reservation but an 1882 treaty which, from my reading of it, has something to do with ceding more land to the US govt/changing boundaries, modifying the govt rations and govt workers they were receiving, and reserving land for school purposes. Will modify article accordingly, thanks for the catch! originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 20:09, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for looking into it. I think I'm nearing the end of my sources incidentally. But I don't have university library access, or any special access at all really. I wonder if @Indigenous girl: would have access to any additional sources, or for that matter, a contact near Sioux County that might be willing to donate a picture of her grave for the article. GMGtalk 20:13, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks to YOU for finding all of these sources. How'd you do that?! Just google books? I think I might still have access to my university library's resources and will check for more sources in a few hours, and it'd be really cool to get more pictures/knowledge too. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 20:23, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Hi GMG! I'm pretty sure I can find more sources. School is back in session so it may take me a bit but I will post them as I find them. Indigenous girl (talk) 13:51, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
No worries IG. Thanks for looking into it. GMGtalk 17:51, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Oh dang. I also just realized this isn't a GA. (For some reason I thought the DYK review above was a GA review.) We can probably knock that out too. GMGtalk 20:15, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah I was hoping to do that eventually, but you got it a lot closer to GA level than I thought it would be any time soon! Do you think two DYKs would be too much? I think she definitely has enough material to make two interesting DYKs. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 20:20, 5 September 2019 (UTC)
I believe the rules only allow one per article. But we can always get back on the main page with an FA. GMGtalk 20:45, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Region’s first Catholic Indian day school?[edit]

[2] GMGtalk 10:24, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

  • Already added. GMGtalk 20:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

Found some sources we haven't used yet:

  • Voices under one sky : contemporary Native literature / edited by Trish Fox Roman.
  • The Lakota woman whom all look at: post trader's wife Matilda Galpin earned the respect of all who served at fort rice, Dakota Territory, John Koster
  • https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt/search?q1=galpin;id=mdp.39015059480312;view=1up;seq=9;start=1;sz=10;page=search;orient=0 - oh boy
  • Once their home, or, Our legacy from the Dahkotahs, Holley - only available as book or microfiche from libraries?
  • sitting bull speeches - doubt it
  • "Among the more than 600 soldiers who set off to Fort Rice, one woman accompanied the group. Her name was Elizabeth Cardwell, the wife of Patrick Cardwell. Elizabeth, just 21 years old, helped make a homelike atmosphere for the soldiers. However, she would also have to endure the same hardships as the soldiers she was accompanying, including the 280 mile march that finished off the trip to Fort Rice. Unlike the men, she was pregnant. Held in high esteem by the men, Elizabeth would become a mother figure to the soldiers. In July of 1865, Elizabeth would take on the role of mother once again, giving birth to a daughter. Helping with the child birth was Matilda Galpin, also known as Eagle Woman. Tragedy would strike just a week later, when both Elizabeth and her daughter passed away." – Young and illiterate at Fort Rice, Bismarck Tribune; Bismarck, ND [Bismarck, ND]16 Oct 2015: 7.
  • Isaiah Dorman - "To make ends meet, Dorman joined a woodcutting crew supervised by Durfee & Peck trader Charles Galpin during the winter of 1867-68 and stayed through the following summer to sell cordwood to passing steamboats on behalf of his employer. When Father Pierre-Jean De Smet arrived that summer at Fort Rice to broker peace between the U.S. government and the Sioux, Dorman and St. Pierre took their third child, Henry, to De Smet for baptism. Henry's godparents were Louis Agard and Louisa Picotte, whose mother, Eagle Woman That All Look At, was married to Galpin." and "Dorman quickly became a trusted employee at Fort Rice. When a new commanding officer questioned Dorman's honesty, quartermaster Captain James W. Scully responded, "Isaiah has always been in the habit of drawing the supplies for the Scouts upon the proper requisitions, and neither my clerk or myself take any more notice of where he takes them than we do of those drawn by the non-com'd officers of the companies." In addition to taking charge of scouts' supplies, Dorman wrote letters on their behalf when, due to a series of disagreements between the Army and the Indian Service, scouts were required to go to Standing Rock to collect annuities rather than receive rations at the post. Eventually, these squabbles spilled over onto Eagle Woman That All Look At (Matilda Galpin), and the Fort Rice commander sent Dorman to assist her with an affidavit to help reinstate her license as trader at Standing Rock." - BLACK MAN AT THE LITTLE BIGHORN. Pengra, Lilah Morton. Wild West; Leesburg Vol. 29, Iss. 1, (Jun 2016): 40-45.

I'm not sure how accessible any of them are. Will incorporate later. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 05:52, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

We just need to make sure if we include sources that are very difficult to access, that we include sufficient quotations in the citation to verify the content. It's not absolutely required, but if we're looking toward GA and maybe even FA levels, then its something we should be doing from the start. That's kindof why I went back and scrubbed all the citation formatting and made sure we had page numbers for anything larger than a journal article. May as well do it right and then you don't have to spend enormous amounts of time fixing it later.
On an unrelated note, one of the things that I saw crop up a few times (I'd need to go back and find it in the sources) was kindof the...well...lets be honest...overt benevolent racism that you pretty much expect from 19th century sources. Specifically, that the more Eagle Woman dressed white, acted white, and helped whites, the more the contemporary accounts of her became radiant. She was a good Catholic woman, and dressed respectfully, and so much period code for "look how well we've civilized this savage". All that feeds back on the philosophy of Nathaniel Green Taylor, basically wholesale cultural genocide as a kinder alternative to the old fashioned genocide that people like Sherman clearly favored.
I'm not sure to what extent is warrants inclusion, but it may be something to look out for as far as "meta" commentary when reviewing modern sources. We may be able to compile enough for a bit of content. GMGtalk 12:59, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Noted, I'll make sure to quote when I'm pulling from ones that require subscriptions. I also noticed a tinge of the benevolent racism in maybe one or two of the modern sources, even, and that's actually part of why I asked for someone familiar with the culture to review. We can definitely look for commentary on that. There was actually a source that said something about going to White Lodge (a chief and her relative) after meeting the Santee band and White Lodge not wanting to listen to her at first because she was whitewashed, but it read in a very dramatized way with direct quotes and was, even more weirdly, in some book about capitalism vs. socialism, so I didn't include it as it didn't seem reliable. It's hard to account for the covert racism the some accounts' retelling of the encounters with other native people, also; "history is written by the winners" and all, not sure what to do about that. I don't remember being able to find a direct source from that author, but I'll look into it again. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 21:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Also I'd like to find a source for when specifically she converted to Catholocism. There's a Bismark source that says that it was when she married her first husband, and that would make sense, but that source in particular is the one that also says she was the first to discover gold, so it's a little sensational and suspect. GMGtalk 13:00, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
Did any of other the sources imply she converted to Catholicism? That's the first I've heard of it tbh. The Catholic school founding could've been from the agent's influence. I wonder if Standing Rock has any documents/oral history on that. originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 21:55, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Quote from the first Gray source:

Father De Smet had with him as interpreter Mr. Galpin, who is married to an Indian woman of the Hunkpapa tribe. This lady is a good Catholic and an excellent person, a striking example of what the influence of religion and civilization can accomplish for the welfare of the Indian.[3]

GMGtalk 22:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Ooh I didn't get that far in the Gray source. Thanks!! originalmesshow u doin that busta rhyme? 04:26, 8 September 2019 (UTC)