Talk:Easter Rising

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Ireland (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Irish Republicanism (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Irish Republicanism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Irish republicanism and Irish nationalism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Military history (Rated B-Class)
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality assessment scale.
WikiProject European history (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject European history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the history of Europe on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Edit-war[edit]

Since the end of last month there has been edit-warring over whether Gallipoli should be described in the lead as "the Middle East" or "Southwestern Asia" and whether the Irish Convention should be described as "British-dominated" or "British-sponsored". Since neither is directly related to the Easter Rising, and neither is mentioned in the article proper, neither belongs in the lead, so the problem is easily solved by removing them. Scolaire (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

ok, agree - if in doubt - cut it out Lugnad (talk) 10:52, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
Good move ----Snowded TALK 12:53, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Should "rising" be capititalized?[edit]

Should rising be in capitals or lowercase here? For example, here's a section from the article: Three unarmed Dublin Metropolitan Police were shot dead on the first day of the Rising and their Commissioner pulled them off the streets. Partly as a result of the police withdrawal, a wave of looting broke out in the city centre, especially in the O'Connell Street area. A total of 425 people were arrested after the Rising for looting. I would put Rising in lowercase, but I want to gain consensus before I do. Peter Sam Fan | talk 15:33, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Disagree, it is an event not a type of event so should be capitalised ----Snowded TALK 16:02, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay. Peter Sam Fan | chat? 16:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Death of Richard O'Carroll[edit]

Would someone please note that Richard O'Carroll was captured and shot on Wednesday, April 26, not Tuesday, April 25. The source is Bryan Bacon's "A Terrible Duty: the Madness of Captain Bowen-Colthurst".CanK9 (talk) 00:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Done. The shooting was covered in existing refs, so it wasn't necessary to add a new one. I gather that A Terrible Duty is a Kindle-only book, hence the absence of page numbers. It wouldn't be considered as authoritative as the major works on the Rising: Caulfield, Townshend, McGarry and Yeates. Scolaire (talk) 08:12, 23 April 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately, Max Caulfield's "Easter Rebellion" (which is NOT footnoted) makes errors in discussing Bowen-Colthurst and his victims. For instance, Coade was not on the ground when Colthurst shot him. Though occasionally supporting the British war effort, Dickson's "Eye Opener" was not a 'violently Loyalist paper' (Copies of MacIntyre's Searchlight are apparently not extant). Colthurst did not tell Sergeant Aldridge that he was going to shoot the prisoners. McTurk did not find Colthurst "rational enough". (He prescribed potassium bromide for him.). Though an exciting story and well told, Caulfield's work has perhaps been superseded by more recent sources.
Before dismissing Bryan Bacon's "A Terrible Duty: the Madness of Captain Bowen-Colthurst" out of hand, it might be worthwhile reading it. (It is footnoted). I would recommend Wiki contributors read that book or James Taylor's forthcoming (June) title "Guilty but Insane" before amending or adding material on Bowen Colthurst for this article.CanK9 (talk) 00:43, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
I am aware of the pitfalls of citing Caulfield. However, none of the details that you say are incorrect are in this article in any shape or form, and in any case the paragraph containing the shooting of Richard O'Carroll has five citations, not just Caulfield. "More recent sources" does not always equal "better sources"; I would be concerned that there does not seem to be a review of Bacon's book in places like the national newspapers or the Dublin Review of Books. I get that you think it's a great book and you'd like people to read it, but that's not what Wikipedia is for. Bear in mind also that this is not an article on the Bowen-Colthurst killings. I would not expect the paragraph on them to grow any more, but if it is edited I trust the editors to get it right by referring to the accepted authorities on the Rising. Scolaire (talk) 13:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)


The problem with Caulfield is that because it's not footnoted, one really doesn't know which statements are reliable and which are not. The other sources are fine but they don't discuss Colthurt's part in the Rising in detail. Colthurst appears in the article so it seems reasonable that if anyone wanted to know more about him, they should be able follow up on the only comprehensive resource currently available.CanK9 (talk) 20:52, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
I don't think it's actually possible to be more comprehensive on Easter Week than existing books, because the only primary sources are the commission of enquiry and Hanna Sheehy-Skeffington's booklet. If Bacon had come up with anything new after 100 years, you may be sure the reviewers would have taken notice. If I'm wrong, you can tell me what these new sources are. At any rate, anything in that paragraph is both adequately sourced and factual. Citations are for verification, not for "following up". Scolaire (talk) 09:35, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
The information we had about Colthurst's activities during the Rising was based primarily on incomplete accounts of Colthurst's court martial and on the published 'Royal Commission on the arrest on 25 April... MacIntyre'. Unfortunately the transcript of the court martial was suppressed and the (crucial) evidential proceedings of the Royal Commission were never published, so myths about Colthurst continue to be reproduced . In the absence of official transcripts, authors should perhaps use the original 1916 reports of the court martial and of the Royal Commission in the daily Irish Times, the Irish Independent, and the weekly Irish Times (as reproduced in the 'Sinn Fein Rebellion Handbook'), and the 'Searchable Press Cuttings, Part 2' issued by the Bureau of Military History. (The 1916 newspaper accounts are comprehensive and pretty reliable as they can be cross-checked). Based on the continuing errors about Colthurst in a number of books and newspapers and on the internet , it would appear that few authors have checked their facts against these sources.CanK9 (talk) 23:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Executed[edit]

User:The Banner, what problem did you have with me adding the  Executed icon behind the names of the commanders executed as a result of the insurrection, as per Template:Executed? Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 19:28, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

This was previously discussed here, about a year ago. There was a consensus that the icon was ugly and unnecessary. Note the last two posts, where the two editors who were adding the icon agreed that the infobox would be better with nothing at all. Scolaire (talk) 09:48, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
Hm, I don't see a concensus there, but thanks for pointing it out. I guess it's personal taste and I don't pretend mine is more valid than others, so I won't argue. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 18:35, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Does seem unnecessary and in poor taste. Mabuska (talk) 19:21, 27 April 2016 (UTC)