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User:The Banner, the rising itself was a failure. The British response afterwards is what woke Irish nationalists up. Mabuska(talk) 11:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
That is only one point of view. There are distinguished historians who say it was the rising itself. I'm sorry you feel the need to support a tendentious claim by a banned user. Scolaire (talk) 14:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Don't know where you get that conclusion from about me supporting the user but that is only one point of view. Mabuska(talk) 15:34, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Tis semantics and hindsight you are arguing about. Both of which are arguably POV's. Juan Riley (talk) 23:41, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
This series of edits had the appearance of being the start of an expansion of the article. However, a week has passed and no further work has been done, so I am going to revert them. As part of that I'm reverting the addition of the Fianna and the Hibernian Rifles to the infobox, because it was agreed in a previous discussion that it should be limited to the three main organisations. Scolaire (talk) 07:55, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Closing discussion initiated by a sockpuppet of banned editor HarveyCarter. Binksternet (talk) 00:02, 3 August 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Most historians say it was the aftermath of the Easter Rising, especially the executions of the leaders, which influenced public opinion far more than the uprising itself. Also the German weapons not arriving should be mentioned - if they had the Rising could have succeeded. (TalbertTaylor (talk) 18:07, 2 August 2015 (UTC))
No rising, no executions, no aftermath. And what you say about the German weapons is speculation. The Bannertalk 18:18, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
If General Maxwell had been allowed to carry out fewer executions as he intended the aftermath might have been very different. (TalbertTaylor (talk) 18:20, 2 August 2015 (UTC))
If, if, if. All speculation. The Bannertalk 18:52, 2 August 2015 (UTC)
The Rising was a mistake as it achieved nothing. The IRB should have waited until the German weapons arrived, then all of Ireland could have become completely independent in 1916. (TalbertTaylor (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2015 (UTC))
I know that this has been discussed and that someone keeps arguing against the Fianna being included as combatants however the records of the Bureau of Military History are very clear that the Fianna were involved in 1916 in a combat capacity and that they took part in actions with Volunteer garrisons and acted as couriers (and again I know it has been argued that being a courier does not make you a combatant, which is a rather odd argument as couriers is captured in uniform are treated as soldiers and the British army did attack Fianna couriers and killed one of them and couriers were carrying military orders between garrisons - they meet the normal internationally accepted rules for being combatants and always have done).
"the expression “military service” means active service in any rank, whether as an officer, non-commissioned officer, private or volunteer in any of the following forces, that is to say—“Oglaigh na hEireann” or the military body known as the “Irish Volunteers” or the military body known as the “Irish Citizen Army” or the body known as “Fianna Eireann” or the body known as the “Hibernian Rifles” or the “National Forces” or the “Defence Forces of Saorstát Eireann” or any branch of any of those forces. For the purposes of this Act service as a member of the Irish Volunteer Executive or of the Headquarters Staff of Oglaigh na hEireann or in the Intelligence Branch of any of the said military forces or bodies, or in the Intelligence Service carried on under the authority of the First Dáil Eireann or of the Second Dáil Eireann, shall be deemed to be military service in Oglaigh na hEireann or in the Irish Volunteers, as the case may be;"
NOTE that membership of Fianna Éireann is considered to have been military service and pensions were paid for service during the 1916 rising. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 17:54, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
The most relevant discussions are here and here. Snapshots of the article at the time of those discussions here and here. The redlinks in the second were: Sunburst Flag.svg – Irish Republican Brotherhood; Green harp flag of Ireland.svg – Irish Volunteers; Starry Plough flag (1914).svg – Irish Citizen Army; Sunburst Flag.svg – Fianna Éireann; and "In the name of" – Flag of Ireland.svg – Provisional Government of the Irish Republic. Note that on both occasions the right-hand-side included the Royal Irish Constabulary and the Dublin Metropolitan Police, and in the second discussion somebody suggested – in all seriousness – that "the British Navy be included by virtue of the Helega [sic] attacking rebel positions". The main problem is one of clutter: once you add one thing, other people will add other things, until the infobox no longer fulfils its function of providing a concise overview. Help:Infobox says that "Infoboxes, like the introduction to the article, should primarily contain material that is expanded on...elsewhere in the article." The Fianna have only a single mention in the article (in the sentence beginning "At midday a small team of Volunteers and Fianna Éireann members..."). A second consideration is that the BMH witness statements and Military Service Pensions are primary sources. What we're missing is a secondary source (book, journal article, web page) saying that the WSs or MSPs make the Fianna belligerents in the Easter Rising, or otherwise saying that the Fianna, as a force, fought in the Rising. The infobox, to my mind, is for stating the salient fact, as stated in all the sources: that the Rising was an armed rising by the IV and ICA against the British Army. Scolaire (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Scolaire has it correct. The small group was a minor part of the battle, not major. They should not be listed in the infobox. Binksternet (talk) 16:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
The Fianna was a major organisation which was involved in the rising, service counted for military pensions and leaving it out doesn't make sense. I really think that it should be added back. I think that the refusal to do so is a matter of personal opinion and not historically correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:23, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
It makes perfect sense, and it is not just a matter of personal opinion. There were policy-based reasons given for leaving them out. Nor is it true to say that it is "not historically correct": it is purely an editorial choice, for which there is a long-standing consensus. Scolaire (talk) 16:53, 2 October 2015 (UTC)