Talk:Eastern Orthodox Church

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Infobox[edit]

Catholic Church, Oriental Orthodoxy, Church of the East, and more have infoboxes. I'd say all prominent Christian denominations have. So why not Eastern Orthodox Church? Chicbyaccident (talk) 08:14, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

I honest don't know why not. Chad The Goatman (talk) 22:41, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
@Chad The Goatman: Would you mind implementing one here then? Ad Orientem, do you mind? Chicbyaccident (talk) 13:48, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
I did it. Veverve (talk) 23:45, 7 January 2019 (UTC)
Do know what, It’s now already technically ruin even some information are right but it’s literally against what’s the page stand for nor denomination’s identity, history and function and it cause me to object of want to seeing deleting it for now because one examples like of majority official names except few them who it’s are pathetically to “Church of [region/nation]” despite its not their official name of churches. Sigh Chad The Goatman (talk) 07:06, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Given how Catholic Church indicates Particular churches sui iuris in its infobox, ought not also the Eastern Orthodox Church indicate something similar about autocephalous and autonomous churches in its infobox, if only in a minimal line? PPEMES (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

References[edit]

Pope of Rome[edit]

In the lead we have reference to the 'Pope of Rome'. I have never heard this particular description. Is it peculiar to the Eastern church? Should this not just be 'Pope', given that there is no equivalent, and possible confusion, with a figure in the Eastern church? Silas Stoat (talk) 18:36, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

The Coptic Church also has a Pope. Unlikely that there would be much confusion, true, but I see no problem in saying Pope of Rome. Besides, even though the Patriarchs do not use the title Pope, keep in mind that the Orthodox (in Orthodox view) never separated - Rome, and Rome alone, separated from all the other Patriarchal Sees, who all remained Orthodox. So yes, it's partly Orthodox usage. Jeppiz (talk) 19:53, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
Thanks. Point noted about the Coptic Pope. My only concern is that the way it's currently phrased makes it look as though 'Pope of Rome' is an official title. Maybe 'Pope of the Western church' (perhaps a bit long winded), 'Pope in Rome', 'Pope, Bishop of Rome' or something similar could be used? Silas Stoat (talk) 21:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I've been bold and changed it to 'Roman Catholic pope'. To me, this sounds better and is arguably more accurate. However, feel free to revert and continue the discussion here, if need be. Silas Stoat (talk) 09:30, 16 January 2019 (UTC)
That sounds clunky and we are going from the usage commonly employed by the Orthodox Church to one that is employed by pretty much nobody. -Ad Orientem (talk) 15:19, 16 January 2019 (UTC)

Pope is not a title, it is a pronominal honorific, not an office or a title, meaning "Father" (the common honorific for all clergy). The title is “Vicar of Jesus Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Patriarch of the Latin Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the Vatican City State, Servant of the servants of God.“ "Pope" is still a common form of address for clergy in the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and the Russian Orthodox Church, and is the style of the Bishop of Alexandria. - see Hierarchy of the Catholic Church. (MiltenR (talk) 20:42, 14 February 2019 (UTC))

Main classification approval of "Catholic"[edit]

For a little while the main classification of the Orthodox Church in the infobox was Catholic (term). This is the main classification because like those of the Baptist classification or any other, the Orthodox Church claims Catholicity. It isn't that hard to understand, and yet ignorance or pure incompetence keeps removing it. I am quite tired of the stupidity of those who deliberately remove this classification without studying, and it has pissed me off this far; therefore I start this consensus discussion to re-add it back, because it seems stupidity in the West doesn't understand classifications. And I will not apologize for my anger, because it is a no brainer. --TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 03:18, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

It's not stupid at all, & you can lay off these insulting edit summaries! As you yourself say, the great majority of churches claim to be "Catholic" in that sense, making it not a very useful distinguishing characteristic. In addition, this is actually somewhat "hard to understand", using "catholic" in a particular sense that is unfamiliar to most people, & needs explaining for any general reader, which an infobox can't do. These two facts make this line completely inappropriate for an infobox, where the information needs to be clear, unambiguous, important and succinct. It (& a lot of other badly-linked stuff) needs to stay out of the infobox, which should not attempt to summarize the entire article. You need to calm right down. Johnbod (talk) 05:33, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
It claims to be Christian, Holy, and Apostolic too. So does Catholic Church and more. Notwithstanding, I can't see convincing arguments for why all Christian denominations infoboxes have to include all adjectives associated, whether claimed or attributed. I would say the adjective(s) clearly associated with what has been accepted for article title per WP:ARTICLETITLE criteria (WP:COMMONNAME etc.) should determine that variable in the limited space of the infobox, and/or a secondary, most describing, distinguishing adjective to help readers distinguish. Thus 1) "Eastern Orthodox", 2) "Eastern Christian", or possibly both. PPEMES (talk) 11:00, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
If they don't have the understanding, thats why the term article is LINKED to it...people tend to click on what they don't understand to better grasp it. Hence, why articles exist!!! It isn't that hard to understand. You, mister Chichbyaccident, have a horrible argument with the claims by the way. A very, very horrible argument...lacking basis.--TheTexasNationalist99 (talk) 16:08, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
Not sure I am following. Isn't WP:BURDEN on Mr, though? PPEMES (talk) 12:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
This is simply not what the parameter is for. Template:Infobox Christian denomination#Parameters says, although briefly : 10. main_classification = (Catholic, Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, etc.)
This leaves no doubt that this parameter is expected to describe the major branch of Christianity to which the subject of the article belongs, not a judgement of "catholicity" in the meaning of being universal (which would be basically synonymous with "Church" and be of very little interest). Note for instance that the Maronite Church is classified as Eastern Catholic, the Armenian Apostolic Church as Oriental Orthodox, the Reformed Church of France as Protestant with Reformed orientation etc. Place Clichy (talk) 16:54, 29 January 2019 (UTC)

Hagia Sophia[edit]

this article in the Section Roman/Byzantine_Empire declares that "Hagia Sophia, the largest church in the world and patriarchal basilica of Constantinople for nearly a thousand years, later converted into a mosque, now a museum", this is almost 100% Wrong and contradicts the List of largest church buildings Article (Mundo Elevado (talk) 06:30, 2 July 2019 (UTC))

So, the Wikipedia article you site treats current largest churches, while the sentence you quoted ranks the Hagia Sophia's historical status, from its completion in AD 537 until 1520. It is totally correct for that time-frame. Elizium23 (talk) 06:46, 2 July 2019 (UTC)