Talk:Eastern State Penitentiary

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Merge Proposal[edit]

Should the Terror Behind the Walls article be incorporated into this? -Midnightdreary 15:14, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the above. Considering a main source of income for renovations, and a main motivation for visiting ESP is the TBTW exhibit, I think it should be moved. Obviously, it shouldn't be placed in the 'history' section of the page, but as far as modern-day ESP is concerned, it's quite a prominent feature. Oh, and I added the official merge thingy. Sab (talk) 14:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. There are 2 huge annual events for which the ESP is known locally, and in some circles nationally: the annual "Storming of the Bastille" to commemorate Bastille Day, and Terror Behind the Walls. Anyone who's ever seen the throngs of people lined up around the block, not to mention the traffic and congestion it brings to the area, knows that TBTW is a big deal at the Penitentiary during the month or so leading up to Halloween. Doany65 (talk) 16:59, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Way to join Wikipedia just to respond to an old post! No one has ever denied that Terror Behind the Walls deserves to be mentioned... but one might wonder if it needs its own article rather than, you know, being in the article on Eastern State. Every major tourist attraction has annual events; do they all need to have a dedicated article just for those events? --Midnightdreary (talk) 20:14, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

SHOULD "TERROR BEHIND THE WALLS" BE MERGED? HELL YES! NO PUN INTENDED. What most people really despise is the sanctimonius self-righteous denial of truth. This prison was not just an architectural marvel, it was literally hell on earth. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A4292255.

I disagree with the merger idea. It is sufficient to have a link to the Terror article. Those neighbors who suffer the noise and increased traffic don't need more publicity for the event. DThomsen8 (talk) 22:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)Dthomsen8
I am going ahead with the Merge. The only opposition to it is not Wikipedia related. AIRcorn (talk) 07:19, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Panopticon?[edit]

Esp-panopticon.jpg

Not sure why there was an October revision removing the panopticon blurb. It may not have been a true panopticon, but it was originally designed that way. Thoughts?? Midnightdreary 22:52, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

ESP is not a panopticon, according to a large poster entitled "Panopticons" within the ESP, ESP was not constructed as such. ESP embodies more of a religious penitence view, favoring solitary cells as opposed to a large central viewing section (of which there is none). I can provide a picture if need be. Sab (talk) 14:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Been there quite a few times, and I seem to remember the central room quite well. And I also seem to remember the audio tour saying, "Eastern State was built as a panopticon..." Granted, the design changed as they were going along. But, if there's something that specifically says it wasn't, I must not be remembering correctly. I blame Steve Buscemi. :) --Midnightdreary (talk) 14:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Here's the picture, as taken from the prison. Mainly, I think you need to have a central tower which watches all the cells directly -- that's the big characteristic (at least I believe so). Sab (talk) 16:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Can't argue with that! By the way, why didn't you upload these images to Wikimedia Commons? They could have been part of the image gallery that's linked from the Commons box at the bottom. As an aside, I don't think the image gallery is needed if we have the Commons box. Along those lines, any reason why you chose to just use your own images rather than the ones that were already here? No offense! ;) --Midnightdreary (talk) 17:43, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Heh, none taken! Here's my thinking: First - all the images are in the commons, including the one in the infobox (apparently there's a bug in importing commons pictures using the national historic template thingy, which is why I duplicated it). Second - I think the gallery function can be used in conjunction with commons if it works with the article. Perhaps now, it doesn't work too well, however, I believe a section on architecture and its relationship to the philosophy of the penitentiary. And finally - I don't want to seem like I'm promoting my own pictures, however, there are some advantages :) I think the main picture should be of the exterior of the building, as it seems to make more logical sense. The one that's there is a great shot, I think it should be moved over to commons (except for its iffy-licensing issue). For Mr. Capone's cell, the picture there was kind of small and a bit out of focus. :( Either way, I'll leave it to the masses to pic their favorites. ;) Sab (talk) 20:02, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough! I look forward to seeing this article expand further, especially with lots of referencing. It's a great piece of history and architecture! And it's great to see someone putting work into it! --Midnightdreary (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I see we've been here before. I've just deleted the incorrect (and unreferenced) claim that ESP was a Panopticon, because it wasn't. The novel design feature of ESP, which made it the model for prisons around the world, was the "separate system", which was a complete departure from the theories that had given rise to the panopticon design. The essential element in a panopticon was that the guards could see into cells from a central observation post at all times; and that the prisoners never knew whether or not they were being watched. The essential element in the separate system was that the prisoners were shut away in their individual cells, and had no human contact: surveillance was not part of the deal, and they weren't necessarily under observation at all. GrindtXX (talk) 22:05, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

The "Ghost" At Eastern State[edit]

Just wondering, is it allowed to add a section in this article about "Ghost Entity" found by Ghost Hunters in Eastern state? Tu-49 13:40, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to have an entire section dedicated to one show. Maybe if there were several discussions or investigations into hauntings at ESP there could be a section on that and Ghost Hunters could be one part of it. But just cuz it's on TV doesn't mean it's true (or important). Any other thoughts? --Midnightdreary 14:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm seems like a bad idea now, but what if we added a picture of the "alleged" entitty, first on the talk pages to see what people think. If it does well we'll put it on the articel, thats my idea at least Tu-49 18:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:39, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Importance=high[edit]

This prison design was copied all over the world, at hundreds of prisons, so the significance for architecture and prisons is high. The prison was a major tourist attraction in the 19th century, and remains important today. I have increased the importance to high. --DThomsen8 (talk) 20:39, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Cold Case[edit]

Eastern state also appeared on an episode of "cold Case" titled "The House". It was named Northern State on the show. should this be added to the article?--Darkness2light (talk) 07:46, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

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You must be kidding me[edit]

"chaining their tongues to their wrists..." Oh, puhleeze!

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