Talk:Economy of China

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Economy of China:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

    Untitled[edit]


    Checklist / to do (see archives)[edit]

    • Article needs updating
    • List the trading agreements/blocs that China is party to or a member of
    • Include the exchange rate of Yuan to the US Dollar during 1950-80
    • Inflation over 10 years
    • A logarithmic graph to replace [complement] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Prc1952-2005gdp.gif
    • Some tables, graphs etc showing trends
    • Recent economic history
    • Components of Manufacturing
    • Banking and Financial Services
    • Other Services eg telecommunications, sales, retail etc
    • Manufacturing Industries eg food and drink, capital equipment, electonics, etc
    • Knowledge based industry eg biotechnology, medical research and development
    • I think this article contains significant information which ought to be integrated into the article. It seems some trends are being set which will result in major changes. Fred Talk 13:00, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
    • The treemap links to an image of the US's economy, not China's — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.160.35 (talk) 00:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

    Strangely, many of these Checklist items seem to imply that the data is somehow reliable. Given the broad view that it is not nearly as reliable as OECD data, items such as logrithmic graphs would likely give an erroneous impression that the underlying data are worth citing. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

    Climate Change[edit]

    I think it would be a great idea to include a section on the impact China's economic expansion is having on the environment. This is especially germane given President Xi Jinping's recent agreement to combat climate change with the United States. 1993ke (talk) 21:12, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

    Luxury Goods[edit]

    I don't know very much about editing wikipedia so please excuse any breach of etiquette that I may have committed. I just wanted to say that the luxury goods section stands out as being particularly poorly written and unencyclopedic. For example, the section stated "Also, the LVMH group, who own major luxury brands including Louis Vuitton apparel, Moet-Chandon wines and champagne and Hennessey cognacs, reported earnings growth of over 25% in 2007 in China alone, the region now accounting for around 16% of their global business." This is very poorly written and 90% irrelevant to the Economy of China. I have already edited "reported earnings growth of over 25% in 2007 in China alone" to remove the "alone" because it implies that LVMH had earnings growth elsewhere, which may or may not be true but is certainly irrelevant to this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.190.127.160 (talk) 12:34, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

    It's not my text, but I'm not sure I understand your objection...the growth of the chinese economy, and its transition since the 90's has been marked by the rapid growth of the upper and middle classes and a much expanded market for luxury goods. I think the bit you referenced is a good example of that phenomenon. The "alone" does not automatically mean there are growing earnings elsewhere. It's not necessary, but it's not incorrect. There doesn't seem to be anything in what you gave as examples that backs up your claim that it's poorly written.Jbower47 (talk) 18:21, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

    Macroeconomic Trends[edit]

    I've updated the data, and added some historical data for inflation and the renminbi. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:09, 28 January 2008 (UTC) DOR (HK) Jan 27, 2008

    Does anyone know what year this refers to? For purchasing power parity comparisons, the US dollar is exchanged at 2.05 CNY only. I ask because a single year reference without a date is worthless. DOR (HK) (talk) 02:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC) DOR (HK) Jan 31, 2008.

    If I understand purchasing power parity right, it refers to the lower prices in China which makes Chinese money go further if purchases are made there. For example, pork, now considered "high" in China still sells for less than a dollar a pound while pork in the US sells for about $2.50 a pound. The quoted figure illustrates the value, expressed in dollars, of how much a yuan will buy in the domestic Chinese market which has generally low prices due to generally low wages. It is a kind of comparison between the market basket a dollar or euro will buy in the US or Europe and the market basket a yuan will buy in China. Fred Talk 14:56, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
    Your understanding is correct, but an dated PPP rate is worthless. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:31, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

    I've removed a column added to the macro table that gave unreferenced numbers purported to be a comparison between Chinese and US incomes. Aside from the lack of reference, there doesn’t seem to be any reason for comparing apples and pine cones (a comparison with India might be warranted, but the article is about China’s economy). DOR (HK) (talk) 08:21, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

    PPP, Nominal[edit]

    One statistic has China breathing down on the US. ready to over take it. The other statistic shows that China shouldn't even be considered as any economic threat to the US. A difference of 10 trillion dollars is fairly large, no? What should be the standard economic measurement?

    -G

    The standard (generally more reliable) economic measurement would be PPP; in other words, the statistic where 'China is breathing down on the US'. Nominal terms refers to the Chinese statistic when converted to US dollars. However, given that the Chinese currency is almost certainly badly undervalued, measuring in nominal terms will definitely undervalue the economy as a whole. PPP, on the other hand, measures in 'real terms'.

    Both forms of measurement have their flaws, so I would suggest keeping both. 118.167.233.204 (talk) 05:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

    Good idea, we should probably keep both, although there is an error - the table says for nominal GDP (2007) China is "ranked 3rd", which links to the list of countries by nominal GDP. However, this very list places Germany ahead of China (consistently - IMF, WMO, and CIA all have China at 4th). I couldn't find this when i tried to edit the page. Can someone fix it? --Aoe3rules (talk) 15:50, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

    There is no sound reason why the "standard economic measurement" should be PPP rather than bricks, bales or bucks. Indeed, as PPP is an artifical exchange rate created to provide an artificial international comparison, it is quite arguably less useful than market exchange rates. Anyone wishing to give me a single market exchange rates dollars for any number of PPP dollars will have a willing partner with whom to transact. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:34, 17 June 2008 (UTC)


    You're joking; PPP is one of the worst ways to measure it. The entire method is only good for a few items and comparison by projections is not amongst them. Fact of the matter is it is pointless to attempt any long term economic comparison by any method, do you understand how absurdly complicated the issue is, especially for a near middle income leveled country like the PRC? For example, the last country that was projected to overtake the US in economic size was Japan by 2010 back in the 70s and 80s, yet now they are 200-250% of GDP in debt, running a 5% budget deficit, is once again flirting with deflation, and whose GDP has been stagnant for the last 10 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.116.238 (talk) 14:41, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

    Too long[edit]

    This article is way too long and could use come copyediting to be simplified. Most of the sections have their own subarticles anyways.--Kozuch (talk) 22:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

    there could be an article entitled "Sectors of the Chinese economy", to which about a third of the content could be transferred. this would leave the broad overview subtopics in place, much easier to navigate. Jvol (talk) 11:06, 16 August 2010 (UTC) Aug 16, 2010

    Bias[edit]

    This article seems to be written from a rather anti-Communist, pro-Capitalist point of view at many times. What's more, many of the statments need more references, as the listed ones are not nearly neutral enough to stand on their own in many cases...

    Works of Sweat (talk) 15:44, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

    At the time of writing I actually think the reverse is true. This article seems to me to be biased towards communism and against Capitalism. Ryan Albrey (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

    I agree. Why is a picture of a Florida turtle used to represent Chinese imports? Does anyone know what percent of imports these turtles represent? DOR (HK) (talk) 07:50, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

    It is clear that there is an unresolved issue as to whether the article is anti-or pro communist in bias. However this probably reflects the objective conflict both within the academic community and within wider China watchers and indeed within China and the Communist Party itself. For an article on China to be anti-Communist would clearly be biased as the government is a Communist Party government. The issue of a Florida turtle can hardly be construed to be a relevant issue. Ryan Alberly 2 Jan 2009 mades no specific reference to what is supposed to be biased, he simply "thinks" it is.

    If someone has some specific proof of bias we can leave the disputed neutrality sign posted but until there is such evidence it seems out of place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinareporter (talkcontribs) 09:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

    I don't think there's any bias at all, the article merely notes that there has been greater growth and development since the economic reforms. How does recognizing a fact, make it biased? I would say that it is a bit too long though. COGITO ERGO SUM 11:33, 10 May 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ajcheema (talkcontribs)

    You're incorrect, firstly, PRC is not communists, it is socialist, and so anti-communist anything will not be applicable to PRC. Secondly, there are no instances of negative assumptions (quite the contrary, positive assumptions such as absurd projections 20, 30, and even 50 years into the future) are to be found. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.116.238 (talk) 14:04, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

    Inconsitancies[edit]

    This article mentions labor shortages and unemployment, high effectiveness of the population control programs and failing effectiveness of the population control programs in almost the same breath. There are some clear inconsistancies in this article, and almost all of them take a negative view of China's prospects...

    There are also some highly inconsistant parts about the use of commodities normally used to produce animal feed being used to produce fuel driving UP the cost of fuel (this would actually drive DOWN the cost of fuel) *possibly* showing more of the same attempts of anti-biofuel trolls attempting to paint the worst possible picture of biofuels, even if this means making illogical and inconsistent statements about the effects of biofuel production (or possibly just showing a lack of understanding on the part of the writers of these inconsistent statements).

    Works of Sweat (talk) 16:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC)


    What are the inconsistencies in the article you mention?

    The information in this article is anything but negative against the PRC, quite the contrary. The article displays the PRC in a unique light by stating (several times) economic projections in a generation from now, a projection anyone familiar with economics knows is so full of variables that it just screams "fanboyism". This entire article just says “populist nonsense” to me, it needs to be locked and rewritten from the ground up by someone who is at least 5% familiar with how the PRC conducts itself. A small example being the measure in which debts are assessed. The article bases its model from a free market system which the PRC is not; they use income from state assets such as banks to give the PRC a reading of their foreign assets, whilst declining to include the liability and debt of those very same assets. This serves to give the PRC remarkably low debts, whilst owning remarkably high reserves. It’s just armature nonsense written by those who are unfamiliar with state controlled economies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.116.238 (talk) 14:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

    GDP?[edit]

    I don't think it's over 7 trillion. i just checked CIA factbook, and it says 6.991 trillion for GDP. I also checked the GDP page of wiki, and it says 7 trillion under CIA estimate, so which one to take? I say underestimating is usually better. CIA China page in the Factbook https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ch.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.212.11.67 (talk) 01:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

    Yes, there was a mistake made up until last year that estimated the Chinese economy as 40% larger than it is in actuality. I changed the table to reflect modern GDP PPP estimates. --Ben 14:38, 6 September 2008 (PST)


    During the past 5-6 years, Chinese currency rise 40% against US dollars, assume yearly growth 9%, so the China economy growth during the last several years is virtually ZERO... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.85.246.98 (talk) 14:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)


    Well i'd like to know why the highest estimate is used, World bank and IMF place china's GDP in 2011 at just over 6 trillion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.242.242 (talk) 22:57, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

    Repeated Text[edit]

    The line "emphasized raising personal income and consumption and introducing new management systems to help increase productivity" is repeated in both the second paragraph of the Introduction and the First paragraph of the 1980-1990 section, is there any real need for this? 81.105.162.252 (talk) 10:56, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

    Updates[edit]

    I've updated some numbers (and added a table) on trade, and will add some more as 2008 data become available. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

    Lead[edit]

    The lead section for this article is extremely long, even given the size of the rest of the article. Is there any way someone who's been involved with this article for a while can work on trimming it? (It's too big a job for me to just jump into.) Politizer talk/contribs 15:45, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

    Reviewing the overview, it contains many historical details and miscellaneous facts, but it doesn't have much in the way of summary or organizing, i.e. the overview isn't much of an overview. I suggest a complete overhaul of this section. Mention the salient points of the current economy: rapid growth largely attributable to exports, investment in infrastructure and urbanization. Whitecheddar22 February 12, 2012

    Germany or Japan overtaken?[edit]

    The article says "China [is now] the world's third-largest trading nation after the U.S. and Germany." I suspect that should be Japan, not Germany. Comments? Maproom (talk) 23:32, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

    According to the WTO's 2007 data, the ranking is US, Germany, China, Japan regardless of whether one is measuring merchandise only or goods and services together. DOR (HK) (talk) 08:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
    Elsewhere in this article "According to Paula Buckley, China economist Ting Lu, China is projected to overtake Japan in 'three to four years'.[56]" The various economic measures are not familiar to me, so I am going to say no more about it. Maproom (talk) 11:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
    The Ting Lu quote refers to GDP, not two-way trade. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

    Very very long lead and article[edit]

    The lead, especially, is horribly long. See Wikipedia:Lead section. About 4 paragraphs tops? -Heilme (talk) 22:48, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

    Trade prices[edit]

    I'm going to dump these here, for use another time. Feel free to incorporate into the article if you get to it before I do. Source: China Economic News (No. 9), 9th March, 2009, pp.12-14. Yes, the percent is the movement in the deflator, not in the value / volume of trade.

    Some 2008 China trade deflators

    Exports--

    Auto-data processing equipment and components (value: US$135 bn): +10.4%

    Rolled steel ($63.4 bn): +51.7%

    Telephones ($41.5 bn): +3.5%

    ICs ($24.3 bn): -13.3%

    LCD panels ($22.4 bn): +5.7%


    "Imports--

    Crude oil ($129.3 bn): +47.8%

    ICs ($129.3 bn): -7.8%

    Iron ore ($60.5 bn): +54.5%

    LCD panels ($44.1 bn): +9.1%

    Primary plastics ($34.1 bn): +12.4%

    Oil products ($30 bn): +58.9%

    Auto-data processing equipment and components ($25.4 bn): +0.7%

    Rolled Steel ($23.4 bn): +23.8%

    Grain ($23.1 bn): +63.3%

    Copper ($19.''2 bn): +2.7% DOR (HK) (talk) 05:56, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

    This article IS THREE TIMES LONGER than the US economy article[edit]

    China's economy is considerably more complex to understand than the US economy, the size of the country, the diversity in development, the population, the workforce, the complex relations between state and private all argue for an article longer than that for the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chinareporter (talkcontribs) 09:49, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

    Whether or not China's economy is more complex than the US Economy is beside the question. This is a very poorly edited article. Whereas the review of the US or most other economies chooses to deal with Agriculture, the Steel Industry, Tourism, or the Automotive industry by directing the reader to a sub-article link, this main article includes a full description of the subject with a novella. This makes the main article bulky. This is silly. There is no justification for this article being this long. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.240.150.52 (talk) 05:38, 28 May 2009 (UTC)


    You people should be ashamed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.219.235.234 (talk) 19:04, 5 April 2009 (UTC) 'Bold text

    Maybe they just don't have time to edit. Rainn1993 (talk) 17:12, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

    repetitiveness[edit]

    I saw the "systemic problem" section exactly similar, word to word, as the introduction section, therefore I decide to remove a small part of the introduction section. Yifanwang99 (talk) 19:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

    I'll piggyback on your title. I removed the second phrase from "[China] is a rapidly developing and influential market economy in the world." DOR (HK) (talk) 07:10, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

    Old infobox[edit]

    I am pasting the specialized infobox here in case there is any additional information which can be used. I switched the infobox being used in the article to the more generic, {{infobox economy}} per the templates for deletion discussion. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

    While I don't want to discourage anyone from improving Wikipedia, this table is repetitive, not completely sourced and in some cases contains unclear or mistaken information [e.g., what is "note: industry includes construction (5.5%)" ?]. DOR (HK) (talk) 00:29, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


    China to Surpass Japan to Become 2nd Largest Economy[edit]

    China to Surpass Japan to Become 2nd Largest Economy in the world. [1] [2] [3] --Lanolamua (talk) 10:05, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

    Help table[edit]

    Help me editing this table please :

    GDP growth from 1980 to 2009[5]

    The table must be on the right and with the title inside. Thanks. Polylepsis (talk) 14:24, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

    Too long[edit]

    This article is very long. I will try to clean up a bit ! Polylepsis (talk) 19:20, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

    add this to "see also"[edit]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China_by_GDP_per_capita —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gizziiusa (talkcontribs) 07:16, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

    Recent statistical updates[edit]

    I have no problem with anyone undertaking to update the figures presented here, but it is generally an excellent idea to discuss proposed changes to the text prior to actually making those changes. I've tried to restore some of the edits of April 22-23, 2010, that (inadvertently or otherwise) changing the meaning of the text. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:30, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

    Unnecessary opinion[edit]

    No, not editors' opinions; rather, footnoted opinions. Basically, this article is too long, so in my view -- I seek your support or opposition, please -- this is unhelpful: . On June 18, 2010 a US government advisor stated that China could become the worlds largest economy by 2020.< ref>http://www.cnbc.com/id/37769361</ ref> DOR (HK) (talk) 13:25, 20 June 2010 (UTC)


    Thats incorect, the entire belive around the 2020s is that China's economy will be as large as the US economy is right now. China won't acually catch the US until the early 2040s, assuming current growth rates hold, which is a romote chance at best. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.242.242 (talk) 23:00, 19 March 2012 (UTC)

    This article is too long[edit]

    Really, it should be more of summarization than an in-depth paper on the subject. 142.176.144.158 (talk) 16:34, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

    at 160k it should be split off at least.Lihaas (talk) 14:37, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

    2nd largest economy claims[edit]

    This claim is not true, its not affirmed by anyone other than China. Sure it may have been picked up by other media but solely on chinese cliams. Need to wait for affirmation from int'l bodies on that. (ie- IMF, etc)Lihaas (talk) 14:35, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

    Yeah, because the IMF is an "international" body (based in USA? your idea of international is pretty narrow) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.115.54.57 (talk) 15:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
    Lihaas, you do know, I hope, that the IMF gets its data from . . . National Bureau of Statistics, the People's Bank of China and the Ministry of Commerce. Please, tell me you already knew that ! DOR (HK) (talk) 06:11, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

    Macroeconomic Trends[edit]

    This section is poorly written and footnoted, badly out of date (the National Accounts revisions of 2004 are not even mentioned) and the table makes no sense. There are no units identified (is the 1955 figure Rmb91,000, or Rmb91 billion?) and there is no reason to think the exchange rate to the US dollar last year was 9.67 (what?).

    I will delete this entire section, unless there are significant improvements or objections. DOR (HK) (talk) 00:58, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

    recent economic changes[edit]

    descride two ways in which recent economic changes that have led to higher living standards for some chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.203.4.178 (talk) 22:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

    Incorrect figures?[edit]

    The following figures in the summary table seems to suggest that exports are in the 1-2 billion range. Shouldn't it read 1.506 trillion?

    Exports US$1.506 billion (2010) Imports US$1.307 billion (2010) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.43.1.25 (talk) 22:01, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

    Manufacturer No. 1[edit]

    China has broken the 110 year's record of the United States as the world's largest manufacturer.

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/42065544 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.21.211.105 (talk) 13:00, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

    yearly figures[edit]

    Can someone add yearly figures on china's economic growth? I think that would be interesting. (LAz17 (talk) 03:06, 15 April 2011 (UTC)).

    I'm going to dump this here, because my ability to format sucks. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:03, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

    Macro-economic trend

    Real GDP and inflation, 1953-77 Real GDP and inflation, 1978-2010

    These charts illustrate the trends in real economic growth and inflation prior to and during the reform era.

    Year GDP Growth Consumer Inflation
    1953-57 9.2% p.a. 1.9% p.a.
    1958-66 4.3% p.a. 1.3% p.a.
    1967-77 6.0% p.a. 0.1% p.a.
    1978-87 10.1% p.a. 4.0% p.a.
    1988-97 9.9% p.a. 11.7% p.a.
    1998-2010 9.6% p.a. 1.5% p.a.

    Except those numbers are incorrect... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.116.238 (talk) 14:32, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

    ITC external link on trade data[edit]

    Hello everyone, I am working for the International Trade Centre (ITC). I would like to propose the addition of an external link that could lead directly to the specific country’s trade data held by ITC. I would like you to consider this link under the WP:ELYES #3 prescriptions. Moreover, the reliability and the pertinence of this link can be supported by the following facts 1) ITC is part of the United Nations 2) No registration is required 3) Trade data (imports/exports) are regularly updated 4) The link gives direct access to the trade database of the specific country 5) The addition of reliable trade data to the Economy section of the country could provide an appropriate contribution to the information therein contained. Thank you for your attention.Divoc (talk) 19:32, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

    I prefer primary, rather than secondary (or, in this case, tertiary) sources, as there is less chance of errors being introduced. Hence, each national statistical agency (primary sources) would be preferred over international organizations (secondary sources) such as the World Trade Organization, or sub-sets of the UN/WTO (tertiary sources) like ITC. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:37, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

    Quality of life?[edit]

    I wonder my quality of life is higher or lower than US if I make a money $1000 per month in China or $12,000 per year118.123.200.135 (talk) 11:17, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

    It would depend on which city or rural area you live in. There is no simple answer. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:41, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

    Unemployment[edit]

    I don't have access to the link that supposed to be citation for the 4% unemployment figure given in the article. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that a developing nation with 1 billion plus people have only 4% jobless rate. Can someone please verify that figure. Same for the inflation figure given in the fact box, it contract much higher figures given in the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.8.86.41 (talk) 17:40, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

    Chinese data are not comprable to that of the OECD nations. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:38, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

    MAJOR ISSUE[edit]

    What i have gotten from this page is that no one looks at china's unstable nature for example chinese inflation has hardly even slowed down despite rapid and often rash changes to the interest thus china is essentially dead in the water and merely doomed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.169.226 (talk) 17:50, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

    China is not a credit-oriented economy. Raising interst rates only has an impact on those who are able to borrow, and repay, debts. Oh, and depositors. DOR (HK) (talk) 03:40, 15 November 2011 (UTC)


    \

    resource[edit]

    From Talk:China ... The rise of an economic superpower: What does China want? "As an economic superpower, what does China want on the global stage?" by Peter Ford, csmonitor.com November 5, 2011

    See Chinese Century.

    99.181.147.59 (talk) 06:49, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


    No propaganda please, lets' keep it factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.116.238 (talk) 14:43, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

    potential resource[edit]

    China's Innovation Wall; Beijing's Push for Homegrown Technology by Adam Segal Foreign Affairs September 28, 2010 99.19.44.155 (talk) 17:13, 8 January 2012 (UTC)


    Misleading graph[edit]

    The graph showing GDP growth over time is misleading. GDP growth is a type of exponential growth, and it being linear means you can make the time it 'takes off' look like any time you want by changing the vertical scale. Consider what the graph looks like in logs:

    http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&scale_y=log&ind_y=false&rdim=country&idim=country:CHN&ifdim=country&tstart=-314236800000&tend=1263686400000&hl=en&dl=en&q=china+gdp

    There is hardly a change in gradient at all at the supposed take-off point (in a log GDP graph, the gradient is the growth rate) — Preceding unsigned comment added by GrampaScience (talkcontribs) 07:21, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

    GDP (PPP) Estimates[edit]

    Currently the article's Statistics table shows GDP (PPP) data for 2011, which is estimate by IMF. A rather poor estimate because it was made back in September 2011. Is it normal? I've tried to revert it back to final 2010 data, but my changes get reverted back to that 2010 estimate values. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Enivid (talkcontribs) 09:00, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

    Better would be to do away with the silly PPP exchange rate as a means of defining the size of the total economy. Considering that no one will sell anything for a billion units of PPP, that means that the only reasonable thing to do is to take foreign trade out of the economy . . . which means it wouldn't be GDP. And, since PPP is a consumer buying power measure, it would also be useful to take out capital investment . . . which makes the entire point of looking at the size of the economy moot. But, Wikipedians are addicted to easy sources such as the CIA Fact Book, and can't be bothered with hard data. Sad. DOR (HK) (talk) 09:41, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

    I notice a recent (Oct 29, 2014) edit replacing 2013 data with that of 2014. As 2014 is still a work in progress, this data can only be an estimate. It would be more appropriate to use only historic, official data . . . and not IMF estimates. DOR (HK) (talk) 06:33, 30 October 2014 (UTC)

    Should we get rid of the overview section?[edit]

    I think the entire section should be deleted because the overview section should be limited to the one paragraph on top. Helps reduce the length.

    Notthepersoninthearticle (talk) 08:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

    The section "‎Noopolitik and the Knowledge Economy"[edit]

    See [4]. This section is almost exclusively a poorly written summary of this poorly written article in an student journal: [5]. It has many dubious statements (like that the Chengdu J-20 is considered superior to the F-22), OR, and unclear statements. As such I have removed it. Acadēmica Orientālis (talk) 04:07, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

    Requested move[edit]

    The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

    The result of the move request was: page moved. I have moved the disambiguation to Economy of China (disambiguation) for now. Arbitrarily0 (talk) 01:00, 29 March 2013 (UTC)


    Economy of the People's Republic of ChinaEconomy of ChinaPeople's Republic of China has been moved to China. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 02:34, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

    The dab's function can be assumed by a hatnote for Economy of Taiwan, but I don't see the point of either a dab or a hatnote. Taiwan is (arguably) part of China, and Britain is part of Europe, but no one would use the praise "Economy of China" or "Economy of Europe" to mean "Economy of Taiwan" or "Economy of Britain". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:00, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    No, you are clearly forgetting that the formal name for Taiwan is "Republic of China", so clearly "Economy of China" can be used to refer to it. And per One China, both the PRC and ROC economies together can be considered the "Economy of China". Britain is not part of Europe as Taiwan is part of China, because China has two national governments, one based in Beijing, which controls the mainland, and one based in Taipei which controls Taiwan. Further, the economy of the PRC is not the only topic that the economy of China can refer to, it can refer to the economy of China for any period of Chinese history, so can also be disambiguated by period of history. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 06:52, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    I think you've made my point for me. From the One China POV, there is not one China and and one Taiwan. There is Taiwan, it is a part of China, and Britain is a part of Europe. Your confusing the Republic of China with Taiwan. Agan from the One China POV, both the PRC and the ROC claim to be the government of China, but Taiwan is not China, it is a vary small part of China. No one, form any POV, would use "Economy of China" to refer to the Economy of Taiwan, it'd be like saying "Economy of the United States" to refer to the Economy of Rhode Island. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:25, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    The article "Economy of the People's Republic of China" does not cover the whole of the territory of One China, only part of it, which makes my point, your move makes it cover one region of the entity called China, but you would remove the hatnote and disambiguation page pointing to the other Two Chinas part. There should be a disambiguation page, where I said it would be located, Economy of China (disambiguation). -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
    Also neater Economy of India, nor (probably) any other country/territory article is disambiguated by period of history. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:31, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    Which is why a disambiguation page should exist for China, since it has multiple articles on economies of various regions called "China" in the modern day, and multiple articles on the economies of historic Chinas. And why I suggested the disambiguation page be called "(disambiguation)" -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
    Emmette is right; this is a poor rationale. Economy of the United States and Economy of Canada don't discuss the economic practices of those nations' indigenous peoples (likewise with Australia and NZ). There are many similar examples. --BDD (talk) 23:36, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    I'm not opposing the move, I'm opposing the removal of the disambiguation notes (either as a disambigation page or as a hatnote) Emmette is proposing to delete disambiguation completely. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:33, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
    It's debatable and disputed weather Taiwan is part of China. It's also debatable and disputed weather Turkey, Georgia, etc. are pare of Europe, but Economy of Europe does not have a hatnotes for Economy of Turkey, Economy of Georgia (country), etc. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:17, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
    It's not disputed that "Republic of China" is the formal name of Taiwan, so your analogy fails. Turkey is not called "Republic of Europe", Georgia is not called "People's Republic of Europe". -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 03:40, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Support The China naming issue is settled (on Wikipedia), so this should match the parent article China. --BDD (talk) 16:58, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Oppose this article is about the People's Republic of China and makes no mention of the economy during the Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, etc.--Wikimedes (talk) 19:17, 22 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Support 1. WP:COMMONNAME, and the country article is also China. 2. wikipedia editors tend to use China/Taiwan for none political issues. Fizikanauk (talk) 00:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Rename per the main article China. Timrollpickering (talk) 13:59, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Same as the rest. Marcus Qwertyus (talk) 04:06, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
    • Support - Per common name, no chance of confusion with Taiwan.Rangoon11 (talk) 00:24, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

    Wikiecon[edit]

    I would love to see a Wiki project map out the global economy. In an organized format all local/country economic data would be collected. All authors would be required to write articles according to a standardized and cited format. The model revolves around publicly released economic data: GDP, employment, industries, corporations, fiscal policy, etc. Economists and volunteers can help determine which economic data accounts are most appropriate to be required under the standardized format. There is nothing in the world that resembles this model. There is no Wiki that allows economists to add economic data under a standardized format. I have already written the article for 'Economy of the United States'. It is 7 pages long. This article contains what I believe is the most important economic data available to the public. The data is almost entirely in table format. Citations include the U.S. Census Bureau, the World Bank, Bureau of Economic Analysis, Yahoo Finance, CNN'S Money's Fortune 500 list, U.S. treasury releases, Federal Reserve websites, company SEC filings and the IMF. The article can be seen in PDF format at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_States_Economy.pdf The Contents are: 1. States, 2. Industries, 3. Corporations, 4. Employment, 5. Fiscal Budget, 6. Monetary Policy, 7. Creditors, 8. Cities, 9. International Accounts 9. History All articles would be standardized and connected in an organized network. This model would go down to the most local level. All 196 countries would have a standardized country article to have the same exact format used in the attached file. This project would evolve as economists determine better ways to present the data.

    The 'Economy of ______' pages would be a very educational collection of economic data. I think that these articles would be greatly improved if they were modified to become uniform. This would allow for greater comparability. I believe that these pages would be improved with a standardized and simplified format. This would allow for greater comparability and public understanding of the economy and fiscal budgets. Below are the Wikipedia Contents of the four biggest economy articles. As you can see, the Contents are inconsistent between them. I believe this can be fixed with my Wiki project proposal. 1. Economy of the United States 1 History 2 Overview 3 Employment 4 Research, development, and entrepreneurship 5 Income and wealth 6 Financial position 7 Industry Sectors 8 Notable companies and markets 9 Energy, transportation, and telecommunications 10 Finance 11 Health care 12 International trade 13 Currency and central bank 14 Law and government 15 See also 16 References 17 External links 2. Economy of China 1 History 2 Government role 3 Regional economies 4 Development 5 Macroeconomic trends 6 Financial and banking system 7 Industry Sectors 8 Labor and welfare 9 External trade 10 Foreign investment 11 Demographics 12 Transportation and infrastructure 13 Science and technology 14 See also 15 References 16 External links 3. Economy of Japan 1 Economic history 2 Infrastructure 3 Macro-economic trend 4 Services 5 Industry 6 Mining and petroleum exploration 7 Agriculture 8 Labor force 9 Law and government 10 Culture 11 Other economic indicators 12 See also 13 Notes 14 External links 4. Economy of Germany 1 History 2 Macroeconomic data 3 Economic region 4 Natural resources 5 Sectors 6 Infrastructure 7 Technology 8 See also 9 References 10 External links — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mcnabber091 (talkcontribs) 19:28, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

    China Economic Report[edit]

    Is anybody interested to help me finish this report? I still need to find the governement budget, central bank balance sheet and employment statistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/sandbox

    Here is a finished economic report on the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mcnabber091/Economy_of_the_United_States Mcnabber091 (talk) 03:32, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

    GDP per capita by industries[edit]

    What is the point of this set of data? Even at market exchange rates -- PPP is for consumer goods -- it makes little sense except to point to the obvious large population. DOR (HK) (talk) 07:56, 6 May 2013 (UTC)

    China's liquidity crisis[edit]

    The run of extraordinary growth since the 1980s seemed to have hit what Paul Krugman called a "great wall" in 2013, as indicators slipped across the board and predictions were only barely being met with what seemed to be cooked books.[6] Chinese banks reversed from purchases of foreign currencies to sales to cover the country's liquidity crisis.[7]

    Why is this not notable? Hcobb (talk) 00:48, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

    The question is not over notability. It is over the source, Paul Krugman. GotR Talk 00:55, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
    Note that my sources include www.forbes.com Is that a notably non-reliable source? Hcobb (talk) 02:19, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
    As long as there is no mention of Krugman, I have no qualms. Though, preferably, in addition to a quote voicing concern over slowdown, there be a quote of an analyst (and there are many) that views the "slowdown" as a transition to more sustainable growth and greater self-sufficiency. GotR Talk 02:29, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
    Could you give us a list of Nobel laureates of whom you approve, so that we won’t make the mistake of including views of just any globally renowned economist?DOR (HK) (talk) 09:23, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
    Please do not transform this into an issue in which I have veto powers. We know the Peace Prize is from time to time plagued by politics, and Krugman has been labelled as "economically illiterate". And read my post at 02:29 6 Aug. GotR Talk 16:06, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
    The Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean what you are implying, nor does it have anything to do with the Economics Prize. Why should we take the word of one broadcaster/film-maker for Russia Today as the end all denouncer of a man's entire career? A man well recognized globally as an economics expert? Unless you can defend this denunciation with something a lot stronger, I am returning the reference. --OuroborosCobra (talk) 04:31, 8 August 2013 (UTC)
    Its about the what world must not be depending on.

    Internationalization of the renminbi[edit]

    With China's new currency swap with the European Union taking effect soon, I thought its time to create an article on the internationalization of the renminbi. My question is whether this is important enough to deserve a mention in the article's introductory section, or should we leave it to the main text instead? -A1candidate (talk) 18:26, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

    Mention about possible bubble / wrong investments[edit]

    Various people express the view that Chinese economy to some extent is a bubble, and that there is overinvestment or as some say malinvestment. Especially mentioned are examples of a real estate market, for example whole newly built cities that stay empty, also empty skyscrapers etc. I heard in one documentary that there are estimates that some dozen or so percent of newly build real estate expanse remains unused. I think there should be some mention in the article about opinions that Chinese growth has been a bubble to some extent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.26.211.220 (talk) 22:10, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

    External links[edit]

    Hello everyone, I am working for the International Trade Centre (ITC), a UN/WTO agency that aims to promote sustainable economic development through trade promotion. I would like to propose the addition of an external link (http://www.macmap.org/QuickSearch/FindTariff/FindTariff.aspx?subsite=open_access&country=SCC156%7CChina&source=1%7CITC) that leads directly to our online database of customs tariffs applied by China. Visitors can easily look up market access information for China by selecting the product and partner of their interest. I would like you to consider this link under the WP:ELYES #3 prescriptions. Moreover, the reliability and the pertinence of this link can be supported by the following facts 1) ITC is part of the United Nations, and aims to share trade and market access data on by country and product as a global public good 2) No registration is required to access this information 3) Market access data (Tariffs and non-tariff measures) are regularly updated

    Thank you, Divoc (talk) 13:41, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

    China PPP estimate[edit]

    The top of this article now says that "the method used to estimate [China's PPP] has been deemed unreliable" and links to a business article citing one person, Michael Pettis. IMO, this is the personal opinion of one person, and should be treated as such. I don't see how it automatically overrides the entire World Bank, which spent nearly a decade working on its PPP estimates. I am changing the wording slightly to better reflect the existence of disagreement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.120.27.37 (talk) 01:26, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

    I believe this statement should be removed or moved to following sections. The possible controversy is mainly about the calculation method of purchasing power parity. It is frequently mentioned when discussing the accuracy and reliability of PPP, but not relevant enough to be included in the lead section of this article. --E8xE8 (talk) 02:52, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
    Agreed, also the IMF itself has said that these are not official statistics. And until an argument as to why they should be printed on the page has official statistics, it should not be on the page as it is misleading and presents a false conclusion. Until the IMF releases its annual official report, it will stay according to the official reports that other economic pages report to. It seems that the general consensus agrees that it does not belong on the main page. --Sciophobiaranger (talk) 04:35, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
    The estimate report by IMF is still an official IMF estimate report. I don't see any authoritative source saying that there are problems with the data of the report. The majority of economists do agree with the conclusions of the IMF estimate report. Unless you can quote me multiple authoritative reports that rejects the data and conclusions of the Oct IMF estimate report, I consider that the data in that official report can be used on this page. I am reverting the edit as there is no consensus on this issue. The idea that the Oct IMF estimate report is unreliable and cannot be used or sourced is a fringe view, it is by no means a majority view.101.127.17.153 (talk) 05:09, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

    See IMF's Wikipedia page and you will find criticism of the organization's interference in foreign markets. They were also criticized this past year for exaggerating Brazil debt crisis.184.97.162.162 (talk) 19:49, 14 December 2014 (UTC) [6]

    1. ^ National Bureau of Statistics of China Consumer Price Index (CPI) Kept Jumping in August, 11 September 2008.
    2. ^ http://www.stats.gov.cn/english/newsandcomingevents/t20080311_402467365.htm Consumer Price Index (CPI) Expanded in February] National Bureau of Statistics of China 2008-03-11 14:53:02
    3. ^ Unemployment in China The Economist. September 9, 2004.
    4. ^ End of Aid to China, 24 March, 2005
    5. ^ World Economic Outlook Database, October 2009, International Monetary Fund.
    6. ^ "Global Narrative About the Chinese Economy Darkens."
    7. ^ "The Last Stampede: Capital Now Exiting China."