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- 1 Why is there an old picture ?
- 2 Other appearances
- 3 Collaborations
- 4 Merger proposal
- 5 6 Nov. edits (Steve Earle)
- 6 Emmylou & Arlo video
- 7 Template:Emmylou Harris
- 8 Emmylou Harris Biography/With Gram Parsons: horrendously written
- 9 Country??
- 10 Artists mentioned in infobox and lede
- 11 Biased
- 12 work with Bright Eyes
- 13 Associated Acts
Why is there an old picture ?
When I watched the Wiki article on Emmylou Harris, I thought to myself: Why has the admin chosen such an old picture of her ? Though Emmylou is almost 60 years old, she is still a beautiful woman. So why not replace an old picture of a young woman by a new picture of an old woman ? Her age does not lessen her beauty.
Hans Rosenthal (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ )
- Admins don't have any special authority to choose photos. Feel free to upload any photo that is freely-licensed (see Wikipedia:Copyrights) or used under the principle of fair use. We should have photos of Harris at a number of different ages, both young and old. Tuf-Kat 01:06, Apr 20, 2005 (UTC)
- Now there is a picture of Emmylou Harris (2005 Promotional photograph courtesy of Wolftrap) in this article (at the bottom). I am greateful for this. Her face and voice look and sound more and more attractive to me. Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ ) (22122005)
- To truly do Emmylou justice, we need a photo from Wrecking Ball to Red Dirt Girl era.
The picture of Emmylou Harris is now at the top of this Wikipedia article, where it belongs to. Thank you, who ever shifted her picture to its appropriate place. Hans Rosenthal (ROHA) (hans.rosenthal AT t-online.de -- replace AT by @ ) (12102006)
- Someone recently alphabetized it, which makes it a little less cumbersome. Trimming doesn't seem possible because any deletions would have to be more or less arbitrary. It is not yet complete, of course; Ms. Harris's collaborations are many. Unless you think it's unencyclopedic or something, I'd suggest leaving it. Rivertorch 15:22, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- I've been looking at the articles for some other singer-songwriters. The Emmylou Harris article's body is relatively short in comparison to its discography, so maybe it seems a little unbalanced. I'm sure the body could be expanded. As for the discography section itself, it's actually quite short compared to those of certain other articles. I have no objection to its being moved to a separate page, but I wonder if you could specify more exactly why you think that's desirable? Also, just for context, check out pages for Leonard_Cohen, Willie_Nelson, Merle_Haggard, and Linda_Ronstadt . . . and then Bob_Dylan. Is the Dylan method preferable, do you think? Keeping in mind, of course, that the whole Wikipedia should reflect the way we do it here . . . Rivertorch 23:32, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
The track "Wild Montana Skies" appeared originally on John Denver's album "World Game" (the title track features The I-Threes and The Wailers). "Wild Montana Skies" is a duet with John Denver. The song was also released on "Duets".
As I read it, Collaborations is a subsection of the Discography section. If this is so, then I take it the collaborations listed should be limited to those albums (e.g., Trio, Western Wall, Roadrunning) on which Emmylou appears throughout and receives credit not just in the liner notes but on the front or back cover. A mere appearance, whether it's on one song or several, on someone else's album shouldn't be enough to warrant inclusion here. Otherwise, this section will become enormous again. Someone earlier suggested a separate discography entry, but until then. . . . Comments? Rivertorch 07:24, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
- Would a separate discography list be a bad thing? The move might encourage further development of both the biographical article and her massive discography (which could use the Dylan listing as a model). — WiseKwai 10:20, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. Would you like to start it? :) I'll contribute what I can to it if someone else will do the initial setup. I do want to clean up the Collaborations section soon. Rivertorch 18:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
- Hmmm, I just noticed this after adding some collaborations/duets. My view is: her collaborations are a part of her career and deserve encyclopedic coverage. Where they live strikes me as a formatting issue. Of course she's been so darn prolific as to make a six degrees of Emmylou game feasible and I can see the need to eventually break them out another article. The idea of removing them entirely makes me sad. I'll help, but I'm still pretty much a newbie and buried in the Songbirds article. Rubioblanca 04:02, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Rioblanca. I share your view that the songs deserve to be listed comprehensively. The question at this point, I think, is simply where to put them. The preceding two sections list entire albums, not songs. If you look back through the history of the article, you'll see that there was a fairly all-inclusive list once upon a time. Some felt it got out of hand and lengthened the article too much, but instead of its migrating to its own article it somehow got deleted. I can start a separate Discography article but probably can't get around to it for a few days. In the meantime, I'm going to pare the Collaborations section down to the bare bones—i.e., the albums, not individual songs. Don't worry about your entries disappearing; we can always retrieve them for the new separate page. Rivertorch 05:27, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
In the same vein, I'm cleaning up the Compilations section. What I remove there should reappear on the new Discography page by and by. Rivertorch 05:38, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
- Wouldn't it make for a smoother transition (read less angst for me) if the Discography article was in place before the data disappeared from the main article? Is there a burning reason to do this now? Rubioblanca 05:45, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
How about this for a collaboration format? Rubioblanca 03:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
|"Blue Eyes Crying in the Rain"||Roy Acuff||vocals||Fred Rose||2:05||That's Country" by Roy Acuff and Grammy's Greatest Country, Vol. 2 by various artists||1975|||
|"Oh My Sweet Carolina"||Ryan Adams||vocals||Ryan Adams||4:55||Ethan Jones||Heartbreaker by Ryan Adams||2000|||
|"The Waltz You Saved for Me"||John Anderson||vocals||Flindt, Kahn, King||2:45||Wild & Blue by John Anderson||1982|||
|"The Wayward Wind"||Lynn Anderson||harmony vocals||Lebowsky, Newman||3:26||Cowboy's Sweetheart by Lynn Anderson||1992|||
|"The Last Time"||Tom Astor||vocals||Meilenstein by Tom Astor||1998|
|"Dreaming My Dreams"||Mike Auldridge||vocals||Reynolds||3:01||Mike Auldridge by Mike Auldridge||1976|||
|"Appalachian Rain"||Matraca Berg||vocals||Matraca Berg, Samoset||3:43||Lying to the Moon by Matraca Berg||1990|||
|"Only a Woman's Heart"||Mary Black||vocals||Eleanor McEvoy||3:47||Looking Back by Mary Black||1995|||
|"Grey Funnel Line"||Mary Black, Dolores Keane||vocals||6:53||Donal Lunny||Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 2 by various artists||1999|||
|"Sonny"||Mary Black, Dolores Keane||vocals||4:14||Donal Lunny||Bringing It All Back Home, Vol. 1 by various artists||1998|||
|"Nobody's"||David Bromberg||vocals||White||4:58||Brian Ahern, Bernie Leadon||Midnight on the Water by David Bromberg||1975|||
|"Send Me an Angel"||Cindy Bullens||vocals||Cindy Bullens||4:35||Cindy Bullens||Neverland by Cindy Bullens||2001|||
Looks great! It will fit perfecty on the new Discography page, which I might actually get around to creating this week if no one beats me to it (hint hint, please beat me to it!), and I think a similar format would work well for the rest of the new page, as well. Rivertorch 04:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
It occurs to me that the Contribution column may prove problematic. In almost every case, her contribution is a vocal (should be a handful out of hundreds that are vocal + acoustic guitar) , and there may be endless debate over what constitutes duet vocals vs. harmony vocals. We could probably live without this column, but it doesn't bother me. I like the Producer column; that's cool. Rivertorch 04:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
What about separate lists for harmony vs lead vs unverified contribution? My thought is that there are a number of Emmylou appearances where the only way you know she's there is because the liner notes say so. I'd like a way to distinguish between substantial and other appearances. Ditching the contribution column is probably a good idea. Thoughts? Rubioblanca 14:49, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Created the Emmylou Harris discography article (someone was begging and I had a moment of weakness). Marked with template:underconstruction. I haven't deleted anything from this article yet. Modeled on the Bob Dylan discography. Help! Rubioblanca 15:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- Good start! I went ahead and split the discography content out and added a main article link and also changed the template links to point to the new list. The chart coding is commented out for the time being until somebody (not me) wants to fill in the charts. I'd suggest that further talk about the discography development take place at Talk:Emmylou Harris discography. — WiseKwai 16:22, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
- Excellent! Thanks to you both. I'm looking forward to adding to the new page. Re contribution column: I agree in theory about noting "substantial" appearances, but in practice where to draw the line? It's quite subjective. Better to ditch it. Rivertorch 17:56, 25 September 2007 (UTC) (aka The Beggar).
I have placed merger tags, proposing that The Hot Band article be merged into the section, Emmylou Harris#The Reprise Years. Please discuss the proposal below. Thanks. — WiseKwai 19:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support merger - There is little information in The Hot Band article and it could easily be absorbed into the section of the Emmylou Harris article dealing with that era of her career. Additionally, there are few links to the Hot Band article, so the merge would cause little harm. Still, because there was at least one other Hot Band that existed at one time I believe that making The Hot Band page a disambiguation page would be a fair solution. — WiseKwai 19:30, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support merger - As per Wisekwai. Does/did The Hot Band have an existence away from Emmylou? Rubioblanca 22:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
- Support merger - My only qualm is the title the section already has: The Reprise Years. Some of the albums of those years were Reprise, some were on the main Warner Brothers label. I should have noticed that before. Rivertorch 03:12, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. I began the stub but found sparse information on the Hot Band and feel that they deserve mention, but Emmylou's page is the place. --leahtwosaints (talk) 17:34, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Looking at the history of this page and Hot Band, I think there may be some confusion. The Hot Band was merged into "Emmylou" in October (it is now a disamb page). But Hot Band was then created anew in November. This latter was proposed for speedy deletion, but Leah said she wanted time to work on it. So, Leah, do you still wish to expand Hot Band or do you agree to another merge-in? Hult041956 (talk) 20:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
6 Nov. edits (Steve Earle)
Rather than moving this additional info to the logical place in the article, I am reverting it. By my count, in 2004 Emmylou collaborated on seven other artists' songs besides the one on The Revolution Starts Now. In the absence of evidence that this collaboration was particularly noteworthy, it seems inappropriate to single it out in the article proper. It is, of course, in the new and wonderful discography. Rivertorch 06:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Emmylou & Arlo video
- Just out of curiosity, there's a video of Emmylou with Arlo Guthrie singing Deportees by Woody Guthrie with a note that it came from Shared Version (Shared VISION?) on You Tube. Here it is for those interested:  I certainly wouldn't use anything from You Tube with it's flagrant copyright violations and temporary videos, but thought perhaps there's a place for this collaboration.
and speaking of video collaborations; where is her Transatlantic Sessions video mentioned? There are videos on YouTube, which chronicle her appearances in those Bluegrass meets Irish traditional jam sessions. Cat, who was just stopping by... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 14:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- If it was an official release, the place to note it is Emmylou_Harris_discography#Video_and_film. Rivertorch (talk) 19:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous editor added Bob Dylan's Desire album to the "Collaborations" section of Template:Emmylou Harris:
23:10, 9 July 2008 184.108.40.206 (Talk) (2,581 bytes) (ROHA: Added a very important collaboration: with Bob Dylan on his album "Desire", on which Harris backs on most of the songs.)
Although Ms. Harris' background and duet vocals are prominent on Desire, her contributions do not rise to the level of a collaboration. Desire is not a "Bob Dylan and Emmylou Harris" album; it is a Bob Dylan album.
I would have edited the template, but the change occurred five weeks ago; I'll therefore solicit comments first.
- Agree, it's not a collaboration in the sense we're using the term here. While you're at it, please check out Collaborations on the discography page and see what you think about the Carl Jackson entries. Rabid fan that I am, I've never gotten around to those, so I don't know if they qualify. Rivertorch (talk) 04:42, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Emmylou Harris Biography/With Gram Parsons: horrendously written
The second paragraph (and perhaps the remainder) of the Emmylou Harris: Biography: With Gram Parsons subsection is excellently intended but horrendously written, in my humble opinion. This part of the article used to be unremarkable (a good thing), I thought.
I've come across many Wikipedia articles with fancy, highlit, shouting messages either at an article's top or in an article's subsection that scream to the world "What you're about to read is defective because of A; you can fix it by doing B" et cetera.
I've never tried to figure out how to paste one of those admonitory billboards into an article; I won't because of this issue; I'll just labor to author a fitting replacement to the relevant part of the article.
Unless someone else beats me to the punch or dissuades me. (Do YOU think the article section is critically flawed?)
Well, apparently no one agrees with me. Nonetheless, I've finally made an initial stab at rewriting the second half of the section; I deleted all the text that surrounded the "...drew a crossover of listeners..." because it pertained more to Emmylou's accomplishments during the first part of her solo career than it did to her actual time with Gram. GrouchyDan (talk) 10:12, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
I realize that this section, as well as most of the article, needs some inline citations; I promise to add them soon for this section (note that there weren't any prior to my edit). GrouchyDan (talk) 10:19, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
The very first line of the article says that she's a country artist. Obviously, this isn't wrong. But in two senses it is misleading.
For one thing the core audience for Nashville top-forty country is not that enthusiastic about Emmylou being a country artist. Opinion is divided and some commentators are quite definite about this. Certainly she has been succesful on the country charts and every country artist that I have ever heard praises her and wants to record with her. There is a significant sector of country fandom that rejects anyone whose work isn't one hundred percent country, narrowly defined, almost all the time. This leads to my second, and much more serious, objection to the label 'country' for Emmylou.
Ms. Harris has been succesful in almost every sub-genre of popular music except metal and rap/hip-hop. Her musical horizons are limitless. She started out as a folk musician and has done many songs that were rock or pop. That she adds a country "flavor" to these songs is indisputable but she does a lot more than country. Her performance of songs by Neil Young and Bob Dylan and Bruce Springsteen, among others, is one of the reasons that Nashville top-forty fans deny her a country status. More importantly, they show her to be more than a country singer. She is beyond genre, a perfect angel. 220.127.116.11 (talk) 16:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)Will in New Haven18.104.22.168 (talk) 16:30, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
- Everything you say is true, and calling her a country singer in the lead sentence runs the risk of overemphasizing her commercial success at the expense of her overall artistry. The policy on verifiability, however, suggests we should go with the way that she's usually described by reliable sources. Unfortunately, I suspect that may be "country", but it would be helpful if you could provide evidence to the contrary. Rivertorch (talk) 08:30, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Artists mentioned in infobox and lede
I made the following changes to the "associated acts" portion of the infobox:
- removed Spyboy and Nash Ramblers because they were (among) Harris's backing bands and not acts with their own identity apart from hers;
- added several artists with an extensive history of collaboration with Harris (both on her records and on theirs);
- added several artists whose duets with Harris resulted in hit singles;
- did not remove any other artists, even though this list cannot possibly be comprehensive and there are probably some one-off faves there inserted by various editors;
- alphabetized the list (including even Gram Parsons) for simplicity's sake and to make it easier to maintain.
I also changed the artists mentioned in the lead paragraph, placing them in descending order based on the number of entire albums and the number of recorded songs they've collaborated on with Harris. (This was a rough count; I may have erred.) Without a doubt, there are notable artists that were removed in this edit, but (1) they're now in the infobox and (2) given the number of artists Harris has worked with, there really needs to be a cutoff or it just gets bloated. It was my hope to do this rationally, with a quantitative methodology, but I may have missed something on the qualitative side. Rivertorch (talk) 09:10, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Reading the section on Gram Parsons and Harris, I was amazed at how biased the phrasing was and I also noticed that there were no citations in this section. Can't any of this be backed up? Most curious is how the author seems to know what Harris is feeling. How is that possible? Perhaps she expressed herself somewhere in an interview? There are too many points here that scream for verification. According to the Wikipedia's assessment standards, this article shouldn't be a B-rated article. (This has nothing to do with my views about Harris or Parsons. I am just an average reader who was perusing it for pleasure while listening to her music.)Crtew (talk) 14:17, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
work with Bright Eyes
I realize that the list of collaborators at the beginning of the article was not intended to be a "laundry list", but she played a pretty significant role in I'm Wide Awake It's Morning and I think it deserves a nod in this list. Why, exactly, does the inclusion of Bright Eyes always get yanked? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 07:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- The link Bright Eyes goes nowhere, so I will assume you are refering to Bright Eyes (band). The problem will be that if we include BE we have to include the next collaborator, and then other, and then other. We can't include every collaboration she has had in her 42-year musical career, just the notable ones, why the work they did is as notbale as Dolly Parton or Linda Ronstadt?. Tbhotch.™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 07:23, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- Hear, hear. She is one of the most prolific musical collaborators around, and it makes things unmanageable if we don't be strict about this. I had a rationale in my head when I wrote the commented-out note and trimmed the list way back when—can't really remember exactly now, and am too full of pre-holiday cheer to bother much, but it seemed to me that at a bare minimum inclusion should require at least one of the following: (1) single that charted; (2) co-billing on an album; (3) appearance on multiple tracks on at least two albums; (4) multiple songwriting collaborations. Maybe we should codify this into an FAQ or something in the not-too-distant future. Rivertorch (talk) 20:45, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- Another criterion that probably would suffice would be people who are past members of one of her bands and are über-notable in their own right (e.g., Rodney Crowell). In any event, the list looks too long for me now. Rivertorch (talk) 20:49, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks, but I trust you don't want that in the article. The artists with whom she has sung backup number in the three digits. Rivertorch (talk) 17:53, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:dzfuxqraldte All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:hjfpxqekldde All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kjfqxql5ldse All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:dbfoxqugldhe All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jjfwxqr5ldhe All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:ajfoxql5ldde All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:jiftxq8hldke All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&token=&sql=10:gpfixqqkldke All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:gifqxq9hldke All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kjfuxqr5ldte All Music Guide album page
- http://wc09.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:kcfexql0ldfe All Music Guide album page