Very glad the short, bare entry I started here has suddenly been filled out with details. About time this story was told to the general public.
- Isn't it nice to watch your chicks gain feathers! I found that Library of Congress site and pillaged it. It was an embarassing episode, otherwise it would have been "The Lisbon Venture" or something, and every British schoolchild would have known the names of all the ships... My questions are, was the aborted third action to be at the Azores or Cadiz? And did they skip the main fitting-out harbor, Santander, entirely? --Wetman 19:50, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Thankyou Wetman - you've breathed life into the entry! You may notice a few "perhaps" in the entry I made - here I was making an "educated guess" - given the context of the times. I'll leave them as a challange for others to enter more precise info - the Wikipedia game you wrote about. I'm no historian - but reviving this story will be a major kick up lazy historians behinds for treating this event as merely a "failed expedition", or that Anglo-Spanish war as just a bit of biffo with no long term consequences. Cheers, Riv
- Got that redlink: Sir John Norreys, who deserves a richer bio than I cobbled together. (Anyone?) The next major Anglo-Spanish episode was The Spanish Match, currently a very poor stub for quite a good story... (Anyone?)... --Wetman 07:05, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I kept most of the original material, but had to cut the whole thing and past it back in because of saving difficulties. I've cited a reference book and given more details and a structure that's easier to follow.--shtove 09:32, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
The "armada" not return directly to Plymuth. It necessary don't forget the dishonourable episode of the destruction of the defenseless city of Vigo, which Drake delivered her soldiers in order that they were ven her revenge. Four days of cruelty, plunder and barbarism while Norris and Darke were looking for another side. This brutal episode supposed five hundred more dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 12:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Details left out
First of all, great article. Interesting subject and good information but there seems to be a detail missing
In the first section about the objectives of the expedtion there is a sentence that reads "A critical contradiction lay between the separate plans, each of which was ambitious in its own right." What is the critical contradiction?
Confusion concerning consequences
The "comparative neglect" of the English navy I was referring to was after the peace - not during Elizabeth's reign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 01:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Why is this called the English Armada? Did they use that name themselves, or ever refer to the Royal Navy as such? If not, then this article is mistitled and should be changed. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 23:40, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
This victory was hardly decisive to the war. The war rolled on for msny years after so "Decisive" in the infobox hardly describes the results of this battle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 03:16, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
== Spanish Armada vs. English Armada: It is difficult to escape the conclusion that there has been an attempt by politically motivated revisionists to equate the two "armadas" to England's disadvantage. In reality England and Spain were in no way comparable at the time. Spain was an immensely wealthy global superpower whilst England was a minor and impoverished second-tier European state. The "Spanish Armada" was a concerted attempt to conquer and subjugate England using the full range of military and naval resources; the English Armada was an opportunistic attempt to cause damage and gain plunder. If defeat and victory are determined by whether or not a nation achieves its objectives, the Spanish Armada must be termed a "decisive Spanish defeat", and the English Armada a "costly and rather pointless victory". The question of casualties is open to debate. In reality most naval expeditions of the era resulted in a substantial loss of life over and above the death toll of everyday existence. It is questionable whether the English "battle casualties" of the Drake Norris expedition differed much from the Spanish.
- Spanish Armada: 20 000 dead? Sounds awfully like English figures to me.
The fate of the Spainish ships in their Armada is not known for sure. The Spanish Crown/Government never released these historic details. Derbris and bodies found in Ireland points to much of the SPanish Armada being damaged or wrecked in a severe storm west of the Outer Hebridies. They may have been attempting an invasion of England via Catholic strongholds in Scotland or Ireland. No Spanish ships were sunk by hostilities. During the English Armada most of the remaining war galleons had been repaired, unknown to the English fleet. Once the English fleet was equipped with large numbers of cast steel cannons (100yrs later) they quickly became the dominant navy. They were much quicker and cheaper to produce than the conventional bronze cannons found on the Continent.18.104.22.168 (talk) 11:02, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
This was not an "utter" (1589) defeat for the English any more than the Spanish Armada's defeat was a "decisive" (1588) defeat for the Spanish. If either of these statements were true, the war would have ended a lot earlier than 1604.
"armed merchantmen" = armed merchant ships
- The sources use merchantman/men, so that satisfies the wikipedia criterion on reliability. Otherwise, what's the problem? Any fule knows what it means, even a lay reader in the nth century. Shtove (talk) 21:32, 14 September 2013 (UTC)
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