Talk:English wine cask units

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Attribution note[edit]

Some of the content in this article is from the merged perma-stubs of Rundlet and Tierce. AgneCheese/Wine 23:03, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I've merged the rest of the perma-stubs here aiming at making this into a more coherent article. JIMp talk·cont 01:40, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


That a "firkin of wine is the same as a puncheon" seems to be a dubious claim, especially since I was unable to verify it from a reliable source – I only found this claim on, and nowhere else. I must therefore question the reliability of, as they do not provide the source of that information. Pages 138-142 of Zupko's "A Dictionary of Weights and Measures for the British Isles: The Middle Ages to the Twentieth Century, Volume 168", on the other hand, contains dozens of definitions of firkin dating as far back as 1423. It shows firkins of beer, ale, soap, butter, and even eels, but only a single mention of wine. That solitary mention, from 1566, says "Nowe aboue gallon the next measure is a Fyrkin: then a Tercian, a Kilderkin.... And by those measures are sold...Ale, Bere, Wine & Oyle". There are countless other references in that same book which list all of the wine units, and both firkin and kilderkin are absent from the lists. I would propose removing any mention of firkin from this page, unless someone can come up with a reliable source. Grollτech (talk) 21:43, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

I agree. As a firkin is given a quite different meaning as a measure of beer and ale, consistent with the reference given above, i will drop it from the chart of wine measures. (talk) 05:04, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Conversions of unit silliness[edit]

Is there any way to avoid such silliness as " 84 US gallons (317.974589856 litres)"? This should say 320, or at worst, 318 litres. The nineteen digits are just plain silly. Huw Powell (talk) 04:21, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Generally, on articles about units exact conversions are given if possible since we're talking about the unit itself. It's not false precision as it would be if it were a measured value because it's a defined value. That said, however, perhaps the article body text would flow better if these details were relegated to a table in the footnotes with more rough conversions in the body. Jimp 08:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
I've restructured the article putting the clutter of digits which used to be sprinkled all throughout into the footnotes and a new table (replacing the old). I haven't got rid of the precise conversions (as they are valid in an article on units as mentioned above) but by moving them out of the text perhaps I've made it more readable. Jimp 12:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Is the conversion chart correct. The way it reads now, reading down the column under Tun it seems that all of the smaller measures are inverted 2 should be 1/2, etc. The same is true reading across. (talk) 16:44, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

I think you're right. I've inverted the numbers (except for one, which was just wrong). Jimp 18:58, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

parenthesis and conversions[edit]

re :

"...(e.g. a hogshead of 300 L or 66 imp gal or 79 US gal, a barrique of 220 L or 48 imp gal or 58 US gal (Bordeaux), 225 L or 49 imp gal or 59 US gal (Australia) of 230 L or 51 imp gal or 61 US gal (Burgundy) and a puncheon of 465 L or 102 imp gal or 123 US gal)....."

It's preferable that this should be removed from parenthesis so that the he repetition of the historic and non international measurements (ie non litre) can be more easily placed in parenthesis IF INDEED they should be used at all. Litres are the international standard, those who use prefer other measurements should refer to conversion charts. (Bordeaux and Australia have never used US gallons and quoting them here is non scientific and simply for one nation). Thhe cities/regions should also come out of parenthesis.

However, the basic improvement should be:. a hogshead of 300 L (66 imp gal, 79 US gal), a barrique of 220 L (or 48 imp gal, 58 US gal) in Bordeaux, 225 L (49 imp gal, 59 US gal in Australia, of 230 L (51 imp gal, 61 US gal,) in Burgundy and a puncheon of 465 L (102 imp gal, 123 US gal)....

Preferably: a hogshead of 300 litres, a barrique of 220 litres in Bordeaux, 225 litres in Australia, of 230 litres in Burgundy and a puncheon of 465 litres....

Now that this is easier to read it looks like it should be further improved to the following so that barrique refers to Bordeaux, Australia and Burgandy....but IF NOT, then the original is incorrect! a hogshead of 300 litres; a barrique of 220 litres in Bordeaux, 225 litres in Australia, of 230 litres in Burgundy; and a puncheon of 465 litres....

I have not attempted to make the changes as I'm sure there are persons better qualified to do so....I hope someone can pick up on this. (talk)Paul Trundley49.195.133.130 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 00:45, 12 October 2014 (UTC)