|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Enzyte article.|
|WikiProject Medicine||(Rated Start-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Alternative medicine||(Rated Start-class)|
- 1 Cow Semen
- 2 Ingredients
- 3 Some medical professionals...
- 4 Smiling Bob
- 5 Translation Issue
- 6 The music in the commercials?
- 7 The voice-over
- 8 Imitation of legitimate drug commercials
- 9 Wikipedia inadvertantly makes a funny!
- 10 Enzyte's purpose
- 11 Neutrality
- 12 Speedy deletion
- 13 Partially cleaned up.
- 14 Vandalism Reverted
- 15 Is anything in it a PDE-5 inhibitor?
- 16 WikiProject class rating
- 17 Anonymous edits to Enzyte article
- 18 Smilin' Bob
- 19 Zinc
- 20 Sale and Purchase of Berkeley Premium Nutraceuticals.
- 21 Repetition
This article refers to "Cow Semen." Shouldn't that be "Bull Semen" as cows are female?
126.96.36.199 17:25, 19 March 2007 (UTC)stutennis
Is anyone else as creeped out as I am by "Bob?" This guy always has that big stupid grin on his face. And Bob's wife, what's with her?
- JesseG 19:28, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- I'll tell you what's up. She's bizzarely older than him. Kingoomieiii 17:14, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
Can we cite a source? Or is this a product of the rumor mill? "Psst, Enzyte contains Tribulus terrestris. Pass it on!"
I like Bob. Apparently so does Mrs. Bob. -- Beland 06:20, 16 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The ingredients seem to listed in a sidebar on the UsaToday article.
-- Nsfmc 20:02, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
A source citation for ingredients is easy to find: the product label. It is reproduced by numerous sites, for example, http://www.myvitanet.com/en60tabeprnu.html. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 11:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Many citations of physiological effects of the herbal components, on the other Wikipedia articles about them, are references to pseudoscientific books, and less evidence than may be implied is actually available. Not to mention, the quantities of herbs are much, much smaller than the concentrations used to determine any effects whatever in valid scientific studies. Mydogtrouble (talk) 17:42, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Some medical professionals...
- I have not found a source for that, but there is lawsuit news:
- I will keep looking for Dr's advice, meanwhile, I'm removing the "damage" part of the sentence.
- KillerChihuahua?!? 09:47, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
--- There are health-risk citations for an unconfirmed ingredient, yohimbe extract. http://www.cljhealth.com/enzyte-ingredients.htm which is contradicted by (revised formula?) http://www.orderenzyte.com/enzyte_formula.html? ss=e663f66285dd3cd006d03d524d0a7479 184.108.40.206 09:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone have any clue as to who the actor who plays Smiling Bob is? I have searched the net ever since he first appeared and it is like only the character exists and not the actor.
While I do see the similarities between the two, I do not believe Diedrich plays him.
- Smilin' Bob is not Diedrich Bader, although I too am curious. Chris 19:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I think that his name should be changed to 'Boner Bob' since that is really what he is smiling about. Beowulf7120 18:20, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
What I want to know is has anyone noticed the similarity between "Smilin' Bob" and J. R. "Bob" Dobbs, the figurehead of the Church of the SubGenius. I can only imagine this was, on some level, intentional, the resemblance is so striking. And then there's the name. But there's no mention of the Enzyte ads in the articles on J. R. "Bob" Dobbs or the Church of the SubGenius, nor is there any mention of J. R. "Bob" Dobbs in the article on Enzyte. BassBaritone 05:28, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- The SubGenius Foundation is, in fact, ticked off at the way Enzyte obviously stole the image of J.R. "Bob" Dobbs for their mascot. But because Enzyte is only calling him Bob and not "J.R. 'Bob' Dobbs," and because they image is not an exact duplicate of "Bob" (he doesn't smoke a pipe), there's enough difference to prevent copyright infringement. Barely. However, Enzyte's problems have been a source of great amusement and laffs for members of the Church. As has happened many times in the past (remember Microsoft Bob?), "Bob" is outlasting his competition once again. --Modemac 21:22, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, I do seem to remember one "Smilin' Bob" commercial in which he did have a pipe in his mouth. It might be on YouTube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 04:30, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
¶ I have found several internet notes that say that "Smiling Bob" is/was actor (or model) John Larson ... who went missing when his boat capsized in Martinique in 2008 (and no other info on him). But at least one person (anonymous) has posted numerous denials of the Larson identification and I have not found a serious newsource on the identity of the actor.Sussmanbern (talk) 22:23, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
suffragium n. -i : 1. a voting tablet, a vote; the right to vote, franchise; in gen. judgment; approval, support.
suffragor dep. -ari : 1. to vote for; to favor, approve, support.
suffugium n. -i : 1. a shelter, place of refuge.
I pulled these from a latin dictionary after searching for the suff- stem. "Suffragium," the first part of "suffragium asotas," according to this, does not refer to a place of shelter or refuge, but rather the idea of the vote, the ability or offering of support to something.
As for "asotas," it doesn't translate into anything remotely close to dissipated. Rather, "asotas" refers to the "sensualist" or the "libertine."
So, that being said, a more proper translation would seem to be "support for the sensualist," or, in simpler English, "yay for people who like sex."
I'm not so much saying Harvard-Guy is wrong so much as I think Harvard-Guy was making a joke at the expense of people who buy into Enzyte BS. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Studio Ghibli (talk • contribs) .
- Wait... Are you saying it's correct Latin? What grammatical case is asotas? —Keenan Pepper 00:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Hellifiknow. I haven't taken Latin in ages. All I know is that Harvard-Guy is wrong to say it translates as "refuge for the dissipated." I'd be willing to guess that whoever constructed the phrase had an awful grasp of latin as well though. --Studio Ghibli 17:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, this is a textbook example of Wikipedia's preference for verifiability over truth. It doesn't matter if the given translation is wrong, the important thing is that it comes from a published, verifiable source. If you disagree, you need to find another source to back up your interpretation. —Keenan Pepper 21:09, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
So, you're saying that I need to find a published source that lists not only the current published translation as wrong, but also the correct translation? It's not so much an issue of interpretation. It's verifiabile through any Latin dictionary. Because I was unsure of whether or not -I- was correct, I ran the two words past some friends of mine, and the three of them all came up with what I had.
... suppose I can do just that, then. Cite an online dictionary as my source...
It took some digging--and a little confusion, as there were some translation issues..
First, according to this website-
-which is linked off of-
-which is hosted at the University of Notre Dame, the two words in question translate as follow:
suffragium, suffragi(i) N N [XXXCX] vote; judgement; applause;
asotus, asoti N M [XXXEO] uncommon debaucher, dissolute man;
asotus, asota, asotum ADJ [XXXDO] lesser debauched, dissipated, profligate;
Now, with the first word, there's no problem. The second word, though--'asotus.'
To the average English-speaker, the idea of something being dissipated is, like, a sort of evaporation or something, that it breaks up and scatters and becomes nothing. So, technically, it -probably- translates straight as 'vote dissolute,' as there's no conjugation attempted.
It is, however, not "refuge."
suffugium, suffugi(i) N N [XXXCX] shelter; place of refuge;
Obviously, 'suffugium' and 'suffragium' are different words.
Next, there was my issue with the word "dissipated." My original reading of dissipated was what I described earlier--the idea of something breaking up and scattering and becoming nothing. However, this is only one of its definitions. According to Webster's Online Dictionary (http://webster.com/dictionary/dissipated), it also translates as-
2 : to be extravagant or dissolute in the pursuit of pleasure;
I never realized this the first time because I was using a different dictionary. My original dictionary translated it straight to 'libertine' or 'sensualist.' So, looking up the word 'dissoulute'-
Main Entry: dis·so·lute Pronunciation: 'di-s&-"lüt, -l&t Function: adjective Etymology: Latin dissolutus, from past participle of dissolvere to loosen, dissolve
- lacking restraint; especially : marked by indulgence in things (as drink or promiscuous sex) deemed vices <the dissolute and degrading aspects of human nature -- Wallace Fowlie>
- dis·so·lute·ly adverb - dis·so·lute·ness noun
-which is kind of a 'sensualist' or 'libertine,' so the difference in the two dictionaries is probably just a manner of interpretation.
It does not say 'refuge for the dissipated.' We knew that from the beginning, as the Harvard-type made allowances for poor grammar (a lack of conjugation, probably). However, moving a step forward from that, I've also verified through a Notre Dame latin dictionary that the word 'refuge' is not even present. Instead, it's 'suffragium,' which refers to a vote or support for something.
As for 'dissipated,' having taken the time to understand its true meaning, I still feel another word should be used in its place, if only because most people (I think) don't read 'dissipated' as 'lacking restraint.'
'Suffragium asotas' probably does not translate as 'support for the dissolute/sensualist/libertine/sex fiend,' as both words are still in their.. I believe it's nominative?.. form. However, being that I've verified 'suffragium' means 'vote/support' and 'asotas' means 'dissolute/sensualist,' I can make a conjecture--the same conjecture Harvard-type made--that it's a poorly constructed phrase that tries to say 'support for the sensualist.'
So, moving back to the veeeeery beginning-
If the issue is verifiability over truth, I've provided the links to verify the translation. It can be verified. The current translation can be verified as incorrect. The translation I've provided can be provided as correct (taking into account the poor grammar of the original phrase).
.. it's ten minutes later. I want to point out something I missed the first time over.
Harvard-type doesn't refer to 'suffragium asotas' as 'refuge for the dissipated.' Rather, he suggests that the Enzyte-makers -probably- meant 'suffugium asotis,' which is conjugated, which means 'refuge for the dissipated.' That phrase, however, is not what's on the bottle. 'Suffragium asotas' is--and 'suffragium' means 'support/vote' and 'asotas' means 'dissipate/dissolute/libertine.'
No hard feelings, either. Had fun doing this. :p
On a different note, I found another wacky translation.
The fellow of this website claims the phrase refers to "the lecher's helper," and he cites the same USA Today article. I'd go out on a limb he noticed the same thing I did about the translation issue--and when he discovered their meaning, simply embellished it a little bit. Lecher, sensualist. Helper, support. Tomato, tomahto!
Well, that, or he took the first definition of asotus, the noun-form-
asotus, asoti N M [XXXEO] uncommon debaucher, dissolute man;
-and used that for his translation. ;D
We could always cite that one as well. Both what Harvard-type says and what this fellow says.
Also, thanks for clarifying the rules for me. I'm looking over them again right now--though it is one in the morning, so it'll probably be more of a browse. "No original research" rule also.. maybe.. being violated as well. I'm not sure if me plugging a word into a dictionary at Notre Dame constitutes research.
I read that Wiki doesn't mind contributions like I originally did as long as it's from "experts" and the information is "verifiable." While I'm not an expert (only two years of latin, and I'm rusty), the information still is verifiable. I certainly won't press for an update of the entry saying that it translates as "support for the libertine," as that would be my personal theory--and Wiki's down on that. I still would like to see some clarification provided on the original phrase though.
Anyway, talk to you soon.
--Studio Ghibli 05:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Ergh. I was supposed to go to bed, but curiosity caught me and I decided to look up your information.
Congratulations! You're a few hours drive from me!
That having been announced, I wanted to say I noticed that you're listed as a latin-user, and I feel a little.. not so much foolish but.. some kind of word which describes this blanket-over-a-duck-over-my-head feeling.
I also noticed the big star. Congrats.
All that having been noticed, this'll probably either be my second-to-last or last post on the matter, as it's readily apparent that, while I might think a certain way, I'm pretty sure you have things under control. --Studio Ghibli 06:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- I don't have time to read all that now, but I'll try to later (you can remind me on my talk page). Let me just say that the main problem is that asotas can only be feminine accusative plural, which makes no sense. In order to get it to make sense you have to assume that asotas is an error for something like asotis. Asotus, the masculine nominative singular, doesn't make sense either: it can't modify suffragium because that's neuter. —Keenan Pepper 15:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
- Well, see, that's one of the things--in order for it to make sense, changes have to be made. For me, rather than assume that the wrong word was used, I instead assume that whoever made the phrase had a -very- basic understanding of latin, saw the word for 'vote' and saw the word for 'libertine' and simply threw them together. For me, being that I was never good at latin grammar, this makes sense--as whenever I was translating, I looked more for context clues to understand which words were related to what as opposed to actually taking note of which declension they were in.. which, ultimately, is why I see 'support' and 'libertine' and assume someone probably wanted to say 'support for the libertine' but had no idea how to conjugate properly.
--Studio Ghibli 04:12, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, I think we can safely assume asotis is meant, because dative plural makes perfect sense. It's a suffragium (vote of support, approval) for those who are asotus. Now the question is what asotus means. I'm an etymology nut, so I looked it up and found that the Latin asotus comes from the Greek ἄσωτος, which literally means "without" (α-) "saving" (σώζειν). Liddell and Scott says "having no hope of safety, abandoned, profligate" and gives the Latin word perditus (lost) as a synonym. I'm not sure if libertine captures that sense.
- I have no idea where the USA Today article gets suffragor as "refuge", though. Maybe they misquoted the Harvard guy? —Keenan Pepper 05:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- I assume the 'asotus' question ultimately comes down to which source is being cited. When I look it up with the Notre Dame dictionary, the possible meanings for the word are much more varied. As for where 'suffragor' comes from, Harvard-type comes to the same conclusion we did, that the original latin provided was wrong--and, in an effort to try and make sense of it all, suggested that maybe Enzyte meant "suffragor asotis," which is properly declined.
At this point, it's anybody's guess. :p --Studio Ghibli 17:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
- But suffragor asotis is not correct. The only thing suffragor could be is the first person singular present indicative of the deponent verb suffragari, so it means "I support". Nothing like "refuge". —Keenan Pepper 18:02, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
The music in the commercials?
What's that tune in the enzyte commercials. The whistled one. It's catchy. I like it. It's also used on a heineken radio commercial.
The music is from an online production music library. Scola 09:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
According to this website, voiceover has been done for the commercials by David Kaye, professional announcer. http://www.davidkaye.com/index.iml?mdl=commercial_clients.mdl 18.104.22.168 (talk) 19:36, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Imitation of legitimate drug commercials
I think that one reason that the enzyte commercials seem to be so successful is that the commercials often follow the same formula as those for legitimate drug commercials. This way they are able to imply that Enzyte is a legitimate drug without specifically making those claims. Maybe someone with a background in studying advertising can explore this issue. --Googleyed 04:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia inadvertantly makes a funny!
By catagorizing the article as a "Stub."
--22.214.171.124 06:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The question I have about Enzyte has been answered nowhere: is it supposed to help you get an erection, or make your penis larger? (Either way, the commercials are annoying.) -Branddobbe 07:26, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Enzyte is suppose to be an enhancer. And from the way its marketed, most likely to increase your penis size and/or get an erection. However it doesnt work so its suppose to just take your money.
It is possible that the maker deliberately couches the advertising in vague or confusing terms such that an erection may be termed as an "enlargement." Mydogtrouble (talk) 19:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
If wording were a little different for the article (like the first phrase "Enzyte is a scam"), as the wording does seem a bit harsh. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 19:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
WOW... I can't believe that the opening paragraph hasn't been reverted by now. I don't know if it was written by a "dissatisfied customer" or what, but it's POV to say the least. I went back and found an earlier version of the opening, which I think is a lot more appropriate. BambinoPrime 14:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Uhhh - it IS a scam. Just like 99.9% of everything else the world tries to shove down our throats. Hey, but if you THINK it works then fine. Waste your money. The criminal CEO of this joke drug wont mind. And, no, I have never taken it. I have, however, gotten it down to the first 3 notes of that absurd song before I nail the mute button on the remote! Not bad. Well, thats MY opinion. Your mileage may vary. Head on, apply directly to the stupidity. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MediaPlex (talk • contribs) 15:41, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
- Please watch your tone. The half the article already talks about the fact this doesn't work. There's no reason in calling people stupid who just want the article to remain NPOV. Torc2 (talk) 19:54, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
I have problems with the word "naive" being used in the article. I believe this is a non-neutral term that doesn't belong in this article. --Free4all76 14:38, 29 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Free4all76 (talk • contribs)
This article was nominated for speedy deletion. The nomination has been rejected on the grounds that there are plenty of sources. The article has been cleaned up with regards to neutrality and it has been flagged. It does need sourcing as part of a general cleanup. Capitalistroadster 06:43, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
Partially cleaned up.
While this article definitely still needs a lot of work, I've just cleaned it up significantly. Several sections were wordy, redundant, or just out of place. A few opinionated claims were removed or reworded. Missing ingredients from the product were also added. While my changes don't make the article perfect, it's much better than it was, and is less-needy of an overhaul at this time. Thus, please try to carry these improvements forward with any further edits, rather than just blindly reverting to the last version. It was nearly unreadable. 188.8.131.52 14:12, 2 July 2007 (UTC) -kelaniz
I reverted this edit: ""12:05, August 21, 2007 184.108.40.206"". User 220.127.116.11 has made only one edit, blanking out most of this article and replacing the blanked out parts with pro-Enzyte comments. Wtbe7560 20:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Is anything in it a PDE-5 inhibitor?
Has anyone (anywhere, not necessarily FDA-rigorously) shown or even sort of shown that anything in Enzyte inhibits the PDE-5 enzyme, which is how to (approved) E.D. drugs works? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:30, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:26, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Anonymous edits to Enzyte article
http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/f.php?pagetitle=enzyte --Achim (talk) 22:08, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Ain't smilin' so much today. I've seen various internet claims that the actor's name is John Larson, but not a one of them looks like a usable source. Anyone have anything reliable on this? P.S. I used Enzyte as a fertilizer for my cornfield, and lemme tell ya, them stalks grew mighty tall. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
- And I've seen him on TV for this stuff, as recently as last weekend. How do they get to continue to advertise this supposedly fraudulent product? What legal detail is missing here? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 08:34, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
22.214.171.124 (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2014 (UTC)took 5 minutes http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/existential-limbo-being-successful-commercial-actor-144007126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:31, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
Zinc is an ingredient in Enzyte. "Some men who have low zinc levels in their body have had success using zinc supplements to treat erection problems."-see: http://www.med.nyu.edu/healthwise/article.html?hwid=hw112768 Anecdotal evidence suggests the effect of returning low zinc levels to those recommended will have a temporary effect on increasing seminal fluid, such increase causing a temporary increase in erections. After zinc levels return to those recommended normal levels, the effect may disappear. (Now you know ;) Mydogtrouble (talk) 20:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
- I'm not sure whether the Enzyte ingredient zinc oxide is equivalent to zinc, wood-wise. Expanding on your quote, the second sentence says "But high doses of zinc can be dangerous." --CliffC (talk) 22:40, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
http://grande.nal.usda.gov/ibids/index.php?mode2=detail&origin=ibids_references&therow=415152 This indicates that bioavailability of zinc from zinc oxide is significant in human tests.Mydogtrouble (talk) 18:46, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
30 mg tablets of zinc gluconate, from a brand sold in major grocery and drugstore chains, are available wholesale at approximately 3.3 cents per tablet. Enzyte has been advertised at a price of $1 per tablet.Mydogtrouble (talk) 19:03, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Sale and Purchase of Berkeley Premium Nutraceuticals.
Boston Globe reports sale of Berkeley Premium Nutraceuticals to investment group (Pristine Bay LLC) led by Charles Kubicki Sr., developer.
Kubicki acquainted with the firm , because was one of four people appointed by Senior U.S. District Judge Arthur Spiegel to oversee its operations. With attorney Richard Nelson to ensure it wasn’t hiding assets or engaging in deceptive marketing. See:
Pristine Bay receives tax break from local officials. http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090325/NEWS0108/303250061/-1/today Mydogtrouble (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2009 (UTC)