Talk:Equipment of the Syrian Army

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T-80[edit]

Syria have 300 T-80 tanks in serves !! I saw it my self :D

Syria has not T-80 tanks. Never ordered. John K. , Athens — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.21.172 (talk) 20:15, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

re: Updates to some equipment in Syrian service listed in this article.[edit]

1. The author of this article contends that Syria was supplied with upwards of 320 T-80 series MBTs, and claims he has actually seen some. Jane's originally reported that Syria had T-80s starting in the late 1980's and continued to do so into the early 1990's, but later reports up to the present time on the Syrian ORBAT by Jane's and others, particularly by Steven J. Zaloga, do not confirm its use by them. According to Zaloga up through 2000 there had been repeated reports that Syria had ordered T-80s, but no confirmation was available. The only sure method to put the dispute to rest is photographic evidence of this vehicle in Syrian use. Late model T-72's (the later T-72M1M and perhaps even the more recent T-72S export variant) have been seen in use by Syrian forces against the popular revolt which started in the spring of 2011. As for other armored fighting vehicles, Syrian internal security and police organizations have been using various models of UK built Shorland APCs and armored patrol vehicles for many years, with at least 100 in service. Models seen in use against demonstrators include older Shorland Mk. 3 and Mk. 4 patrol vehicles as well as more recent S-52 patrol vehicles and S-55 APCs. The patrol vehicles are generally armed with 7.62x54mmR PK series GPMGs mounted in the turret.

2.As for soft skinned vehicles, the author leaves out the Mercedes Benz 4x4 UNIMOG series of tactical trucks, which have been in service with the Syrians since at least the early to mid-1970s. Most seem to have been of the model 416 2,500 kilogram version (later called the U-800 model). Toyota 4x4 Land Cruiser series light utility vehicles are also commonly employed by the Syrian military, as were some older Land Rover 4x4 light light utility vehicles- photos from Lebanon showed 110" LWB wagons in Syrian use. Some older GAZ-69 4x4 utility vehicles may still be tooling around. In recent years Syria has purchased a large number of new GAZ-3308 4x2 and 4x4 3 ton trucks, and along with these probably still employ large numbers of older GAZ-53 4x2 3 ton trucks, as well as slightly more powerful 4.5 ton ZIL-130 4x2 trucks. They are known to still use Czech built Tatra Model 138 and Model 148 6x6 8 ton trucks, and a few much older Praga V-3S 3 ton 6x6 trucks may still be in service. They also may still employ some older 6x6 KrAZ-214 7 ton heavy trucks, along with newer KrAZ-255B 7.5 ton and KrAZ-260 9 ton models. The Syrians also have some MAZ-537 8x8 tractors to haul tank transporting semi-trailers. Other vehicles seen in use by the Syrians for armored vehicle and tank transport are commercial Volvo FH-16 series tractors with low boy semi-trailers, as well as some of the heavier Mercedes Benz tractors, such as the Model 2636 and possibly the more powerful Model 3850. As for specialized towing vehicles (aka. "prime movers") the Syrians are known to have employed AT-L and AT-LM light tracked artillery tractors to haul weapons such as the 57mm S-60 AA gun, the 100mm BS-3 field gun, the 160mm M-160 (M-1953) heavy mortar, the 122mm M-30 (M-1938) and D-30 field howitzers, and the 152mm D-1 field howitzer. The AT-S and later ATS-59 medium tracked tractors were generally used to haul heavier guns such as the 122mm A-19 corps gun, the 122mm D-74 field gun, the 130mm M-46 field gun or the 152mm ML-20 (M-1937) and D-20 gun/howitzers. The heaviest full track tractor, the AT-T heavy tracked artillery tractor was used to tow the 180mm S-23 gun and the 100mm KS-19 heavy AA gun. Currently trucks generally fill the gun towing role, however. For example, the URAL-375D 6x6 4 ton truck is frequently used to haul the ubiquitous 122mm D-30 field howitzer, while the KrAZ-260 6x6 9 ton truck is used to tow the 152mm 2A36 gun. For bridging and recovery purposes Syria uses various T-55 series ARVs, BREM-1 ARVs, BREM-2 armored repair vehicles, MTU and MTU-20 AVLBs and probably some Czech built MT-55A AVLBs as well.

3. As for artillery weapons some clarification on designations and terminology: First, the 100mm BS-3 (M-1944) "anti-tank gun" is more often actually referred to as a field gun in the literature, even though it was often employed as an anti-tank weapon. The 122mm M-1931/37 A-19 corps gun is exactly that, a gun, not a "howitzer" as it is called in the article. The 152mm D-20 (M-1955) "howitzer" is actually referred to as a gun/howitzer; the same applies to the 152mm M-1937 ML-20, which again is a gun/howitzer, not a "howitzer". The powerful 180mm S-23 is most definitely a gun, not a "howitzer". The self propelled 152mm 2S3 is also typically referred to as a gun/howitzer, not a howitzer. This may seem like quibbling, but these weapons have very specific nomenclatures which denote their tactical uses. Along with the listings for the 100mm BS-3 field gun and the 85mm D-48 anti-tank gun (a weapon which may no longer be in Syrian service at all), it is perhaps a good idea to also list the the 85mm D-44 field gun, of which an undisclosed quantity remain in reserve or storage. As for heavy anti-aircraft guns, photos taken at Syrian miltary parades during the mid- late 1950s show 85mm KS-18 (M-1944) anti-aircraft guns, not the earlier KS-12 (M-1939)- of which Syria might have had some examples as well; the guns were being towed by Tatra Model 111 6x6 10 ton trucks. One photo of these guns in tow can be seen on www.Overvalwagens.com.

4. As for the quantity of 120mm heavy mortars in current Syrian service, earlier reports (Jane's 2006/2007) seemed to indicate that Syria had up to 400 M-1943 120mm mortars (the 120-PM-43), not the 700 mentioned in this article. However, this apparent discrepancy might be explained by the possibility, even the probability, that the difference of 300 mortars is made up of the earlier 120mm M-1938 (120-PM-38) mortar, a weapon for which no quantity is assigned in this article; both the M-1938 and M-1943 versions were generally supplied together as they were essentially interchangeable. It is also highly likely that undisclosed quantities of the newer and lighter 120mm 2B11 Sani mortar have been provided to Syria in recent years. The article then indicates that there are approximately 100 M-1943 160mm heavy mortars in Syrian service; more recent reports from Jane's state that the weapons are actually the more recent 160mm M-160 (M-1953) heavy mortar. However, older Jane's reports dating back to the 1980s indicated that they were indeed M-1943s; the truth is probably somewhere in the middle, with a mix of both types. However, the more modern M-160 is likely much the more common version still in use with Syrian heavy mortar units, with most remaining Second World War vintage M-1943s relegated to training or storage. A recent photo from the AP, dated July 8, 2012 shows a battery of what are clearly M-160s in firing position. The photo of the weapons was supposedly taken at a recent training exercise. In recent weeks there have been persistent reports that the Syrian army has employed 240mm heavy mortars against civilian targets in Homs and possibly other towns, such as Hama; these weapons may simply be of the already reported towed M-240 model, of which Syria reportedly has ten examples in service. However, there have been some reports that Russia in recent years may have transferred an undisclosed quantity- but likely small, perhaps no more than a battery or two, ie. four to ten examples- of the self propelled 2S4 (SM-240) Tyulpan 240mm mortar; some 2S4s may also have been captured by Syrian forces in 1989-1990 from General Aoun's forces in Lebanon during the fighting in that country, and were then incorporated into Syrian service. The Lebanese army weapons were acquired from Iraq in 1988-1989 during a period when the former regime of Saddam Hussein backed General Aoun's attempt to expel the Syrians from Lebanon.

5. The SA-16 MANPADS is actually designated by the Russians as the 9K310 Igla-1, not as the 9K38, which is the designation for its successor, the 9K38 Igla (SA-18); the current and most up to date variant of the Igla series is the 9K338 (not 9K38) Igla-S (SA-24).

6. The full designation for the Tor M-1 air defense missile system is 9K330 Tor M-1.

7. Reports in Jane's dating back to 2007 stated that Syria had ordered between 36 and 50 S-1 Pantsir AD systems, with deliveries starting in August of the same year. It was reported by the same source in 2008 that Syria passed on ten of these systems to the Iranians, a contention which the Russians have denied.

8. Until very recently (2006-2007), Syria was reported in Jane's and in certain other sources to still be using an undisclosed, but likely large quantity of Swiss made single barrel and triple barrel Hispano-Suiza 20mm light anti-aircraft guns, in addition to their large number of 23mm ZU-23-2s. The models in question most likely would have been based around the Hispano-Suiza 20x110mm HS-804 cannon in both a single barrel version of undisclosed type and the HS-630-3 triple barrel version, with some of these latter weapons possibly being the Yugoslav M-55A2 licensed copy of the HS-630-3. However, it is also possible, but much less likely, that the weapons in question were actually the later (ca. mid-late 1950s) 20mm HS-669 single mount and HS-665 triple mounts based around the more powerful 20x139mm HS-820 cannon (which after 1972 was re-designated by Oerlikon as the KAD). Syria was also reported to still have some Hispano-Suiza HS-661 30mm LAAGs, a single barreled weapon mounting the 30x170mm HS-831 cannon (which after 1972 was re-designated by Oerlikon as the KCB).

9. As for small arms, since about 1985 some special units such as the Saraya ad-Difa (Defense Companies)and Saraya as-Sifa (Struggle Companies)- units which have since been disbanded- and some Assad Republican Guard units have both been reported and seen to be armed with 5.45x39mm AK-74 and AK-74M assault rifles (the later AK-74M model has plastic furniture instead of wood as on the earlier AK-74). It stands to reason that along with the AK-74/74Ms they also received some 5.45x39mm RPK-74 and RPK-74M light machineguns. Some Syrian officers and Mukhabarat intelligence operatives may still carry 9x19mm Parabellum FN GP-35 (High Power) pistols, weapons left over from a large Syrian order dating to about 1947, with deliveries continuing until at least the late 1950s. Other pistols reported in Syrian service include East German copies of the 7.65x17mm Walther PPK marked with the "1001" factory code on the slides. Czech made pistols such as the 7.65x17mm vz. 50 and vz. 70 pistols (which is an updated vz. 50; these pistols are largely based on the Walther PPK design) have also been reported, as have older vz. 27 pistols of post-Second World War manufacture. It is also highly likely that the Czechs provided to the Syrians some of their powerful roller locked 7.62x25mm vz. 52 pistols during the 1950s and 1960s. Up until at least the early 1990s Syria had in its arsenals up to 6000 French 7.5x54mm MAS-49 semi-automatic rifles acquired ca. 1953-1954. Some of these weapons had served as sharpshooter and sniper rifles as late as the October 1973 Yom Kippur War. Some of these rifles were later sold off on the civilian market in the United States. Older French small arms such as the 7.5x54mm MAS-36 bolt action rifle and the MAC FM-24/29 light machine gun have long been retired, but some may still remain in storage in the arsenals, and might reappear in the hands of rebels or Free Syrian Army elements due to the ongoing disturbances in Syria. During the recent fighting in Syria, some Syrian army personnel have been seen carrying the relatively new Russian 9x39mm VSK-94 silenced assault rifle, and recent video from the Abkhazian ANNA network shows a Syrian soldier firing a 12.7x108mm OSV-96 anti-materiel/heavy sniper rifle in a counter sniper role.SASH155 (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2013 (UTC)SASH155

10. Other older French equipment that might still be in storage and which may end up seeing some use in the current disturbances- assuming there is still ammunition and spare parts available for them- include weapons such as the MAC 7.5x54mm Reibel mle. 1931 armor and fortress machine gun, the Hotchkiss-Brandt mle. 1935 60mm mortar, 81mm Hotchkiss-Brandt mle. 1927/31 mortars, and possibly the late war and post-war production version of this weapon designated the M-44. There are likely some Mauser rifles left in storage as well; these were primarily surplus German 7.92x57mm Mauser Kar. 98Ks acquired during the early 1950s from East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and probably France, along with Czech Brno vz. 24 and Yugoslav M-1948 short rifles. It is also possible that Syrian arsenals and armories still hold in their stocks a plethora of outdated and surplus Czech, German and Italian machine guns, such as 7.92x57mm Mauser MG-34 GPMGs; Czech 7.92x57mm Mauser ZB vz. 37 (Model 53) HMGs; Czech 7.62x39mm ZB vz. 52/57 LMGs; Soviet 7.62x39mm RPD LMGs- a weapon already mentioned in the article; Soviet 7.62x54mmR RP-46 company MGs, and Italian Breda-SAFAT 12.7x81mmSR aircraft guns taken from former Syrian Air Force Macchi MC. 202 fighters. These last weapons were then used as AA armament on some of Syria's now long retired fleet of PzKpfw IV Ausf. H medium tanks, which were supplied to Syria during the early 1950s by France. Most of this heterogeneous collection of machine guns was, with the exception of the RPD and RP-46, sourced from Czechoslovakia, East Germany, France, and Yugoslavia.

SASH155 (talk) 04:31, 22 April 2012 (UTC)SASH155 (talk) 02:45, 11 April 2012 (UTC)SASH155, W. Thomas, Alex. VASASH155 (talk) 04:05, 28 April 2012 (UTC)SASH155SASH155 (talk) 03:09, 30 April 2012 (UTC)SASH155SASH155 (talk) 03:35, 1 May 2012 (UTC)SASH155 SASH155 (talk) 23:24, 7 May 2012 (UTC)SASH155SASH155 (talk) 01:16, 21 May 2012 (UTC)SASH155SASH155 (talk) 04:08, 22 April 2013 (UTC)SASH155

Almost all the numbers of weapons systems are wrong. Someone change them, making them very high numbers of weapons. He wants to show a very big power to the others sides. This also has happen at wikipedia at past at othe case. At the war at Georgia year 2008. John K. , Athens — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.71.21.172 (talk) 20:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

14/60[edit]

MilitaryBalance2012>The International Institute For Strategic Studies IISS The Military Balance 2012. — Nuffield Press, 2012. — С. 349 с. =60--Rqasd (talk) 19:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

No BTR-70s in Syria and BTR-60 Quantity not included 1973 Losses[edit]

According with http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php Syria not have BTR-70s and the BTR-60 Not including 1973 war losses.

Syria get 150 BTR-60PB in 1971-72 and BTR-60PB Latter Between 1973-75

The Total is 650 right But these numbers not included the Yom Kippur War Losses

According with resents photos are clear some BTR-60 could be retired or Scraped http://lh4.ggpht.com/-oFDRs9pwyiM/UaC-OUJqSNI/AAAAAAABkck/jI5pzmkPcOI/s1152/%2525D8%2525B3%2525D9%252588%2525D8%2525B1%2525D9%25258A%2525D8%2525A7%252520-%252520%2525D8%2525A7%2525D8%2525AF%2525D9%252584%2525D8%2525A8%252520-%252520%2525D8%2525A7%2525D9%2

I no change the BTR-60 Quantity but I deleted the BTR-70 — Preceding unsigned comment added by LogFTW (talkcontribs) 10:24, 16 December 2013 (UTC)aubmn ([User talk:aubmn|talk]]] Hy I want to protest and open a discussion about the actions of al khazar ,he is trying to intimidate me and trying to impose his own opinion without any source or reference about the presence of T 80 Tanks in Syria ,I only claimed after cooperating with another editor that perhaps the T 80 tanks is present in Syria according to Military Today ,please see Source 39 in T 80 article Wikipedia, I m only trying to present a possibility which is based on a Wikipedia source contrary to the other person. Aubmn (talk) 23:15, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

Too many exaggeration here[edit]

Need fixed some numbers a lot exaggerations in the equipment — Preceding unsigned comment added by LogFTW (talkcontribs) 06:23, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

PM-37[edit]

The PM-37 is a pre-WW2 mortar, most of which were lost during WW2. It's practically certain that Syria doesn't use them. More likely are PM-41 WW2 surplus mortars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lastdingo (talkcontribs) 02:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)