|WikiProject Constructed languages / Esperanto||(Rated Start-class, Mid-importance)|
No proof, so I deleted "Some editions exceed 100,000 copies." --Chuck SMITH 11:32 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Not NPOV, so I deleted it: "Many within Esperanto culture seek to guard it jealously against the intrusion of national languages into all levels of Esperanto affairs from the World Congress to local clubs." --Chuck SMITH 11:32 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Deleted because it's not encyclopedia-style:
- the Rotterdam Esperanto Youth wiki page states"ja estas multaj malbonkvalitaj esperantaj filmoj en la CO por moki": "there are indeed many poor-quality Esperanto films in the CO (Central Office of the World Esperanto Association in Rotterdam) to mock".
That's really interesting, because I wrote that in that wiki as a joke, so why did you decide to copy it into this encyclopedia article? I'd also be interested in talking to you on instant messenger if you'd like... my contact information is on my personal Wikipedia page... --Chuck SMITH 16:04 4 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- Response from Trainspotter:
- Yes, sorry, you're right -- it is of course not very encyclopedia-style, and so yes it was naughty of me to include it.
- It was, however, illustrative of something which annoys me, namely that I have seen Esperantists admitting to shortcomings in the language/culture amongst themselves, but hyping it up whenever it comes to publicizing it to outsiders. Even if "to mock" was meant as a joke, the "poor quality" aspect has the ring of truth (or at least would seem a very odd joke to make if the films are in fact high quality).
- Here are other examples of the sort of thing I mean:
- The "Pasporta Servo" page had (until recently edited by 18.104.22.168) talked about hosts "all around the world" without really acknowleding the gaps (e.g. of the 57 African countries, only 11 have any hosts).
- The text describing of Culbert's survey of the number of Esperantists failed to alert to the fact he was himself an enthusiastic Esperantist. (Now that does not automatically imply he was biased; indeed one can even argue that that that places him in a good position to count the speakers accurately; but it ought at least to be acknowledged openly.)
- The phrase "many [...] radio stations broadcast in Esperanto." gave what I considered a misleading impression of many stations broadcasting generally in Esperanto rather than having some programmes in Esperanto.
- So I have myself made mention of any limitations in what has been presented. I consider it quite likely that in places I have gone too far the other way because of being antagonized by what I consider hype; in that case, please accept my apologies if I have been antagonistic myself, and do be bold in editing it. However, where I have succeeded in sticking to the facts, I hope that will be respected.
- --Trainspotter 14:39 7 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- I would think most people would automatically assume that Esperanto films were low quality unless someone specifically stated otherwise. I did watch an Esperanto film last night that was of decent quality (but it was only seven minutes long).
- I'd still consider hosts in 11 African countries as being "all around the world" but maybe that's me... a lot of people think of Esperanto as being just a European thing, but the most enthusiastic Esperanto speakers I've met were in Brazil.
- I would think that anyone doing a study of how many people speak a certain language should speak that language. Would you want someone who didn't speak Russian to try to go around the world researching how many Russian speakers there were? To me, that's just assumed.
- You could be right about the radio sentence. :)
I also get irritated when people try to mislead other people about Esperanto, but I usually see it in the other direction and perhaps I try to compensate by writing too much in favor of it. Anyway, thanks for the counter-weight. ;-) --Chuck SMITH
I could respond to the particular points:
- Brazil may not be in Europe, but Portuguese is Romance language and Esperanto vocab is 75% Romance. China might have been a better example...
- Why should it be assumed that Culbert is a speaker? It says at page : "According to a study made in 1996 by Sidney Culbert of the University of Washington, there are 223 languages that have over 1 million speakers each.". According to your argument about Russian, parts of Culbert's study would be invalidated unless he actually speaks all those languages surveyed (223 with >1M speakers + presumably many others). Anyway, Culbert isn't just a speaker but is someone keen enough to host Esperanto meetings in his own home. Translated excerpt from : the October Meeting will occur ((snip date/time)) in the home of Sid and Ruth Culbert. I didn't say this is a problem per se, just that it should have been acknowledged.
But more importantly... seems we've made our points and are beginning to reach some kind of understanding of what NPOV would have to involve on this topic.
--Trainspotter 15:38 8 Jul 2003 (UTC)
Crocodile tears? Where did you get this information from? --Chuck SMITH 17:39, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
- Because there was no response after 2 months, I have deleted the following: "krokodili ("to crocodile", coming from the European expression crocodile tears used for those who lament the harm they themselves are doing") --Chuck SMITH 22:59, 8 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I've added some info to the culture section of the main article. I've tried to be honest about the langauge's shortcomings in other articles, but this really isn't my area. I'm a little uncomfortable writing it, but the article was so superficial that I thought I'd try to at least fill in a few gaps. It's now about as long as the culture article, so some of it should probably be moved over. I might try that in a few days if I feel up to it, but please, anyone who knows their stuff, go for it! kwami 18:56, 2005 May 19 (UTC)
Orphaned unsourced material
I found the following in the article "Neutralism" and removed it since that article disusses biology. It was unsourced. Feel free to do with it as you choose:
In Esperanto culture, neutralism was a political bourgeois tendence that sought neutrality and pacifism among countries and the ideologies of the 1930s. Neutralists grouped in Universala Esperanto-Asocio. Its theory was rejected by laborist Esperantism, that advocated class struggle.
...thanks. Ste4k 00:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
List of Esperanto actors needed
Where would one go to find a list of Esperanto-speaking actors, either for doing voiceovers or dubbings for modern cinema or for radio broadcasts?22.214.171.124 01:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Esperanto version of Pan's Labyrinth
When I saw Pan's Labyrinth a few days ago, I was surprised to see that a significant amount of financial backing came from some kind of an Esperanto Film Association. Does that mean there's going to be an Esperanto version to this film?126.96.36.199 01:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately not... I also observed the word "Esperanto" in the introduction to that film. Some limited googling reveals that it is merely the name of the production company, which is in no way related to la internacia lingvo. So no Eo version of Pan's Labyrinth I'm afraid. TheFrankinator 21:30, 15 July 2009 (BST)
I propose merging the article Esperanto music into the literature and music and film section of the Esperanto culture article. The current Esperanto music artcle consists a few sentences and a collection links. The article was proposed for deletion earlier this year. The idea of merging it here was brought up during the discussion, but no consensus was reached.
The Esperanto music article doesn't really stand on it's own in it's present form, but the information could be used to flesh out the relevant section of this article. I had proposed working on the article after the deletion discussion, but I don't know when I'll get to it, and there don't seem to be other editors currently working on this topic area. Merger seems a better option for the time being. Naŋar (talk) 12:29, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support merge, per the reasoning at the deletion discussion. It doesn't seem notable enough yet for a standalone article, and there's a distinct lack of significant coverage in reliable sources. However, it's a plausible search term, and the Esperanto culture article is the ideal target. Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 13:54, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- oppose Seems like a call to expand the music article, more than to merge it. Surely there's enough sourceable content on esperanto music to do this? Andy Dingley (talk) 14:00, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support - Putting music under culture makes more sense to me. Carrite (talk) 15:24, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support as deletion nominator. The article is so sparse and has shown no signs of possible expansion. There is little to no significant coverage for a standalone article. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:42, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
- Comment: There is very little information about the Esperanto-speaking community available in English. Writing a decent article would require access to Esperanto-language print sources, though there are some reliable Esperanto sources available on-line. I've poked around enough to realize that a knowledgeable person with good access to sources could put together a decent article. I think, though, that the best course of action for now would be to try to improve this article, including a good section on music in Esperanto culture. Hopefully, it can get split off again into it's own article when people have contributed enough well-sourced material to do that. Naŋar (talk) 04:06, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
- Support per arguments at the AfD. In particular, there appear to be sources treating some individual musical works in or based on Esperanto, but little discussion of Esperanto music as a tradition. As Naŋar suggests, merging now would not preclude splitting at some time in the future if sufficient information is found to expand the section. Cnilep (talk) 04:28, 21 September 2012 (UTC)