Talk:Estádio da Luz
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Is it possible for someone to edit the article to make the point, if the Sunderland stadium of a similar title is to be mentioned, that the English translation "Stadium of Light" is patently incorrect? The correct translation is "The Light Stadium", seeing as Luz refers to a part of the city of Lisbon rather than the quality, light. As is typical, sadly, going all the way back to the start of any sort of broadcasting in England, BBC, ITV, etc, and I suspect, the newspapers also, English journalists have no idea how to deal with European languages. The same stupid error was made recently with respect to the African Nations Cup, by the way.
It was a shock to me only 6 months ago to find that the "Light" in Stadium of Light refers to urban geography. I suspect it will also come as a shock to the people involved in naming the 'new' Sunderland stadium a few years back. Yes, there are local connections there to light (the quality) but there is no way that it would have been so named if they, as football fans, hadn't been aware of the Benfica stsdium name. Of course, they would have had no idea that Luz was a matter of geography either.
This is a common misconception I'm afraid. The stadium is actually situated in the region of benfica. The team is named after the region the stadium lies, not the actual stadium.
"Da luz" very much refers to actual light. Lisbon is the "cittade da luz", the city of light. And The stadium is the stadium of actual light.
"Light" in this instance refers to god. As in, he is known as "the light" in portugal.
Style of the article
"Benfica desperately needed to stop the rot!" "Many Benfica fans went far enough to stop the bulldosers."
The style of the article is far from encyclopedia text. Is there anyone who knows about the subject matter to go through this text?
Also, the Luz-light controversy is not very well explained. If Luz doesn't refer to light at all, why was the new stadium designed for maximum natural light? Is it not possible it refers to both the place _and_ light? CarlosCoppola 08:26, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I am somewhat annoyed to find out that most of this information was stolen from me. I work on www.planetbenfica.co.uk and the majority of this article is copied word for word from the new stadium section.
Also, I would like to clarify that the areas of the artcle being criticised, for example the lack of clarification between whether Luz is the area of Lisbon or a reference to light, and the fans stopping the bulldozers have nothing to do with me. The parts I have written may also not be "encyclopedia texts" but they were in no way written to be.
Anyone who wishes to discuss the article or the stadium can post on the planetbenfica forums as i am an admin there.
the benfica stadium naming belongs to the original stadium, which was demolished to enable the construction of the new stadium for the euro 2004 tournament. the naming relates entirely to the district name and not to the quality of light that was always there in the original stadium.
as a second generation stadium largely of the 1960's and 1970's, it had no roof, apart from around the media and VIP area.
OK, being a Benfica fan, and living very near the stadium, let me clarify a few things: the name of the neighbouhood derives from a church and convent, that of Nossa Senhora da Luz (Our Lady of the Light), a protected landmark located about 700m North of the stadium's location. Note that it is also irrelevant to mark out if i'm referring to the new or the old stadium, since the new one even superimposes partially the old stadium's location. The whole area can be called Luz, and Luz does mean Light in Portuguese. The stadium is called (unoficially) Estádio da Luz in preciselly the same way Wembley is called after the neighbourhood where it is located. Nevertheless, for anyone not residing in the surroundings, The "Luz" in Estádio da Luz is identified as "Light" and not as the location. This is indirectly ascertained by the club's hymn, "Papoilas Saltitantes": Ser Benfiquista/É ter na alma a chama imensa/Que nos conquista/E leva à palma a luz intensa/Do sol que lá no céu/Risonho vem beijar/Com orgulho muito seu/As camisolas berrantes/Que nos campos a vibrar/São papoilas saltitantes. This passage translates roughly (my translation) as: To be a Benfica Fan/is to carry in your soul/the imense flame (...) that overwhelms us and leads to the trophy/ the intense light [here is the double meaning, light and Luz]of the Sun that (...) smilingly descends to kiss (...) [Benfica's] shirts (...)". --Pedrojpinto 16:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree in parts, and have also lived in the region. "Luz" almost certainly doesn't refer to a location name. As far as I'm aware it refers to either the local church, or the festival that carrys the same name.
Either way, it's not a location. And Light very much means light. Not a location using the same name.
Lisbon itself is known as "the city of light". Of light, as the person says above, is a very portugese thing, and prevalent everywhere. There are many places "of light". Pria da luz is the beach of light as an example.
I'd say "of light", bearing in mind the origins of the festival and church, almost certainly refers to the biblical "light" as in, god.
Lady of the light refers to the virgin mary. A women in touch with god. I'd say that "da luz" in it's original meaning very much refers to those "of the light". As in, those who are with god.
Separate article for old Estadio da Luz?
Should a separate article be written for the old Estadio da Luz? It seems this article focuses more on the current stadium. The new stadium was built on the same site as the old, according to the Portuguese article on the old stadium. Patken4 01:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes, i think it would be a necessary improvement, given the importance the old stadium had in portuguese and european football history --Pedrojpinto 15:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
- I've started a stub at Estádio da Luz (old). Feel free to make any additions. Patken4 21:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
Wouldn´t be more accurate to describe it as a sports complex and not only "a football stadium" ? It has a swimming center, two pavillions, a second field, a comercial area with the main store... this article only focus the football... --Eagle Fly Free SLB 18:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
- Agree, be my guest Ordep 03:43, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Why when searching for the world famous stadium of light, do I get directed to the bad copy, in Sunderland UK?
Surely, having only been built in 1997, it's deceptive. And the people running the page should take ownership of the name? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk) 16:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
- "Stadium of Light" is actually a mistranslation of Estadio da Luz. If you read the article, it points out that "Luz" is the area in which it is built, and is, coincidentally, also the word for light. Cocytus [»talk«] 17:07, 5 November 2009 (UTC)
"Stadium of Light" is actually a mistranslation of Estadio da Luz. If you read the article, it points out that "Luz" is the area in which it is built"
That is not true. See below.
Some of this article is wrong. Think that is why there are a lot of crossed wires on the suject of the ground names
The counter argument, in regards to the meaning "luz" is probably the reason for dispute, and misunderstanding as it is almost certainly based on an easily made misconception.
I lived closely to the stadium for a very long time. The neighbourhood/region is actually called Benfica. The club is named after the region of the stadium, not the actual ground.
There is categorically no such place as Luz. Not in Lisbon certainly. As far as I am aware, not in all of Portugal.
"Luz/Light" refers to "The Lady of the light". This is a religious festival held in Lisbon every August, not a place. It's a big religious feast.
"The lady of the light" is the Virgin Mary. The festival is in celebration of this icon of catholisism.
The "light" in the "stadium of light" is simply in homage to "the lady of the light" festival that happens every year in region of Lisbon. It is categorically nothing to do with a place called "luz". No such place exists.
The original "stadium of (the) light" (built in 1952) was in homage to this festival and theological icon. The stadium is known as both "The stadium of light" and "the light". Both in homage to "The lady of the light" festival and general catholic concept.
The light in "the stadium of light" very much refers to actual biblical light. It's nothing to do with being named after a place.
There are various places in the area that use the word "da uz" and it is all for the exact same reason. The famous resort "Pria da Luz" is nowhere near the Benfica district, and translates as "The beach of the light".
"Luz", or "Light" or "of light" or "of the light" in portugese culture means "touched by god" or "blessed by god" people or things exposed to a "divine presence". Human beings or things "of the light" are people who have communicated with god. God is "the light". The stadium name is completely biblical.
The closest translation to the stadiums meaning is:
A bit long but (that's why they invent these terms!) "The stadium of those in touch with god" or "the stadium that feels god's presence" . People "of the light" in portugese culture are people who have found god. Or people who have been found by god. Or people that feel the divine presence. The stadium name refers to a building that is "of god" or "of the light".
This is where my major objection comes from. The claim that Luz in the stadium name does not refer to light. And the obvious fact that both stadium of lights in Sunderland and Benfica use the exact same words, for the exact same reason and meaning.
And hence, when you search for "stadium of light" one ground shouldn't take precendent over the other. As they are both referred to exactly the same words in English. They are both called the same thing, and light actually means light in both instances.
And bearing in mind all articles should be titled by their most popular English name, and not the local translation, I see little argument why the ground is not found when you search for "stadium of light"
I apologise, I should have read the full discussion board before I objected. I had no idea about the probable misconception on "luz".
I assure you, Benfica is named after the neighbourhood/region of the ground. Not the stadium. And the stadium is in reference to the religious festival "lady of the light". And in "of light" they mean "of god".
Luz: an answer to the former
I'm sorry, but if you live "closely to the stadium for a very long time" how can you say that "there is categorically no such place as Luz" and "Not in Lisbon certainly" ?!
All that you have written, especially "The stadium of those in touch with god" or "the stadium that feels god's presence" and "Or people that feel the divine presence (...) The original "stadium of (the) light" (built in 1952) was in homage to this festival and theological icon". "and general catholic concept.." The stadium name refers to a building that is "of god" or "of the light"........ this is ridiculous.
First: The original name of the stadium of Benfica (1954 not 1952) was known as "Estádio de Carnide" not "Estádio da Luz". Only became popularly known as "Estádio da Luz" because of its location and because of the lights that were inaugurated in the stadium by the end of the 1950's.
You can check out old Carris plants from the 1950's and guess, you can see a place on the map called "Luz".
Of course there is a place called "Luz" ("Light") in Lisbon. There's a Church after "our Lady of Light" just close to the stadium. It's just the shorter name.
It was a very important church since the Middle Ages, even more along the XVI century until the earhquake. The entire area is known as "Luz". There's a convent called "Luz" and the Colegio Militar building was known as "Hospital da Luz". They all have more than 400 years!
In modern days, Lisbon build a road called "Estrada da Luz" ("Road of the Light") connecting the Zoo to the... Our Lady of Light Church.
You can also check out Carnide's parish official site and guess... there's a neighborhood called "Quinta da Luz" ("Farm of the Light").
But i'm not finished...
Please, check out the Topographic Chart of Lisbon, probably from 1717. You known what is the place that is near Carnide? YES! jackpot! "Our Lady of Light" with a clear dot. So there's a place (maps are about places not festivals) made by the Portuguese from the beggining of the XVIII century called "OUR LADY OF LIGHT"? LOL
The people living there was really crazy about God and festivals.
Unfortunately, knowing History and Geographic locations have nothing to do with personal opinions.
So the Portuguese wiki is right on this (Carnide's page):
"A freguesia, no séc. XVIII, era constituída fundamentalmente por dois núcleos construídos, Carnide e Luz.
A Luz era, no séc. XVIII, um importante pólo de atracção na freguesia de Carnide."
Yes, it was. There is and there was an urban place called "Luz" ("Light") in Lisbon.
Very old indeed. It has nothing to do with "biblical light" for crying out loud, but the inspiring "light" of the Church (where the cult was older than the church). Around an important religious area, there's usually a small place. --Good Hope Phanta (talk) 01:03, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
I am sure the original number of seats was 65,647 but now I think that is outdated. The official website shows (by doing the maths) that it has a capacity of 65,200. This Wikipedia article states "an official capacity of 65,400". S.L. Benfica page on Primeira Liga website displays a capacity of 64,642. I wonder what capacity number UEFA displays but I haven't found any document. What number should be displayed then? 184.108.40.206 (talk) 18:25, 21 December 2013 (UTC)