Talk:Eucharist

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"Once and for all": Two issues[edit]

Recent edits which inserted and deleted the phrase "once and for all" raise both a technical issue and a second one as to the contents themselves of the lead section. The phrase "once and for all" and similar expressions were used by protestants to reject the traditional medieval doctrine of the sacrifice of the mass as a genuine sacrifice in parallel or perhaps as a repetition of that of Christ on Calvary. This teaching seemed to protestants to go against biblical evidence found in Hebrews 9 & 10 as well as other places. The Church of England's 1662 Prayer Book says the following of Christ's work on the Cross: "who made there (by his one oblation of himself once offered) a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world".(Prayer of Consecration) Although the debate has cooled down somewhat, it is still an issue today in interchurch conversations.

The technical issue is the fact that the phrase is part of a referenced quotation. If it is removed then, since the Methodist document includes the phrase and as argued above it is far more than a cliché, another reference must be provided (or at the very least, the justification of the statement transferred to the body of the article).

I myself am inclined to omit the phrase and the reference as being out of place in the lead section of a general article. I would also remove the whole of the comment which follows on "epiousios": it is extremely recondite and speculative. However, for the moment I have limited myself to removing the word "parsed" which is too technical and arguably a misuse of the term. — Jpacobb (talk) 00:37, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

I am in favour of removing the phrase. I would focus on that fact that the phrase is superfluous or unnecessary (the widely accepted view amongst Catholics and Protestants is that the Eucharist remembers Christ's sacrifice - other details are secondary to this). The Methodist catechism does indeed use the phrase, though I doubt a deep theological point was being made in the wording; I expect the editors were merely repeating a cliche. Now the idea that the Eucharist marks a sacrifice is referenced in the article, so often that I don't think a citation is required in the lead. -- --Hazhk (talk) 01:51, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
I am certainly in favor of removing this phrase. It's too perfunctory an expression to impart any information to a reader, and its meaning is not explained at all in the text. As noted above, it's not universal to the various traditions of Eucharist and thus it would require elaboration and qualification, something I'm not seeing as necessary in this context. SteveStrummer (talk) 21:51, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

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