Talk:Euphrates

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political tensions? that's something new in the ME[edit]

the euphrates river is the source of political tension, as turkey, Syria, and Iraq all compete for the use of its waters for irrigation and the generation of hydroelectric power

There is a subsection touching on these issues. --Wetman 23:47, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
An anon blanked this talk and replaced with a comment (Gareth Hughes 23:19, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)):
the euphrates river is 1739 miles long and 2799kilometers long when it is combined with the tigris river, it becomes shatt al arab — 24.41.63.108.
In the anon's defense, the title's a little pejorative and there's no point being made as far as I can tell. The first poster copied text from the article to mock it, the second mentioned the article discusses the text just pulled from the article. Is there a policy we should never blank such useless "points?" -LlywelynII (talk) 19:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistency re: Lake Van[edit]

The Lake Van article says that the lake is saline with no outlet, but Euphrates says that Lake Van is one of the sources of the river. They can't both be right. Anyone have any clarification here? Gwimpey 22:00, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

OK, I did a little more research and found out that, in fact, Lake Van is not a source of the Euphrates; see [1], for instance.Gwimpey 22:15, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

I was troubled by this inconsistency as well. The "lake" that the Murat Su and Kara Su flow into is the Kerban Dam reservoir. See Murat_River and Karasu_(Euphrates). This can also be seen on a map. I suggest that the article needs to be changed .Jherbold (talk) 17:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

I found a reference to support the Murat and Kara flowing into Lake Keban Dam and made that change. I think this is resolved. Jherbold (talk) 18:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Malayo-Polynesian[edit]

What is the relevance of mentioning Malayo-Polynesian? Isn't it rather far fetched to suggest an etymology without a source based on Malayo-Polynesian? And why is Pangasinan taken as an example? Meursault2004 00:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

The Sumerian names for the Tigris and Euphrates appear to have a word correspondence in sound and meaning to words in Malayo-Polynesian, a language spoken by an ancient seafaring people who sailed the Pacific and Indian oceans, and even settled the island of Madagascar near Africa. In some Malayo-Polynesian languages spoken in the Philippines and Indonesia, the word siglat, which means "swift," "fast" or "rapid," appears similar to the Sumerian name Idigna and the Akkadian name Idiglat for the Tigris. The Malayo-Polynesian word burakan,chvnc which means "wave," "wavy," or "surf" appears similar to the Sumerian name Buranun and Akkadian name Pu-rat-tu for the Euphrates.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batobalani (talkcontribs) 03:22, 13 June 2006.
This is a fringe theory that violates Wikipedia's rules on no original research, verifiability and reliable sources. That is why it was removed from the article. If you want it included in the article, you will have to make sure that it meets the criteria set out in the policies and guidelines above. Also, do not remove other people's posts on talk pages. — Gareth Hughes 09:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

--Nature freak 18:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)--Nature freak 18:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Etymology needs a major cleanup[edit]

The name derivation section right now looks completely crazy to anyone who knows anything about etymology or the Iranian languages. Kurdish and Old Persian are both Iranian languages -- Kurdish is Northwest Iranian while Old Persian is Southwest Iranian.

It is certainly possible that the origin of the word "Euphrates" is from one of the Iranian languages, but you're never going to find out which one by using their modern analogues! It would be like trying to figure out whether a given river in Germany was inhabited by Anglo-Saxons or some other Germanic people by comparing modern English to modern German.

Some referenced arguments for an etymology in the Iranian languages are really needed here. - Saforrest 20:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the etymology section is confusing and suspect, also from the Greek perspective. My Greek is pretty rusty, but it seems to me that -- looking at the clear patterns for the name of the river being something along the lines of PRT or FRT from very early on -- the Greek name "Euphrates" is some combination of Gk. eu ("well, good") plus the earlier non-Greek name (prt), with a Greek masculine ending -es. But the derivation of -phrat from roos, as suggested in the text that's there now, makes no sense -- where does the [ph] come from? If anything, -phrat- suggests a possible folk etymology having to do with kinship (Greek phratre, meaning tribe) -- in other words, to Greeks of the period, it's possible that the name "Euphrates" evoked a meaning along the lines of "good tribe". But that folk meaning is obviously irrelevant to the actual origins of the PRT portion of the name, which clearly predate the Greek version of the name. Perhaps someone with a better background in the area and relevant languages could clear this up? -CranstonShenir (talk) 03:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)CranstonShenir
The original river name is Old Persian bharantā/bharātā 'carrying, bringing, feeding' (Skt. bharati '(he) carries, feeds', Latvian baruot/barāt 'to feed'). Roberts7 21:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roberts7 (talkcontribs)
Er, close. It's from Old Persian, but not Persian so old it's become Sanskrit or proto-IE. There's a lot of junk etymologies, so it's a pain to find a scholarly cite. Someone please do. In any case, don't just blank the etymology section, particularly the Sumerian and Akkadian names, which should be somewhere on the page. -LlywelynII (talk) 19:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Basin countries[edit]

What are the criteria to include Jordan within the basin countries? Is there any geological or map's contour standard for this? I think it is quite far and not related neither in environment nor the elevation, as a valley! Ralhazzaa 13:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Consistency[edit]

Article currently reads in part The Khabur and the Balikh River join the Euphrates in eastern Syria... Both rivers have their origins in Turkey. Downstream, through its whole length, the Euphrates receives no further water flow.

Does that mean that neither the Khabur River nor the Balikh River contribute anything? Surely not... while the Khabur doesn't flow for much of the year, it does flow sometimes, and the Balikh is a major watercourse, according to their respective articles. I think I can see what it's trying to say, but it's not correct as is, and a lot more complicated than it might seem. Andrewa 19:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Islamic Prophesies[edit]

The Euphrates dries up to reveal gold/riches. Does this refer to oil reserves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.210.244 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

No Infobox? Why?--Abhishek Jacob (talk) 19:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Euphrates in Islamic prophecy[edit]

■Soon the river Euphrates will disclose the treasure [the mountain] of gold. So, whoever will be present at that time should not take anything of it. — Sahih Bukhari.

■The Prophet Muhammad said: "The Hour will not come to pass before the river Euphrates dries up to unveil the mountain of gold, for which people will fight. Ninety-nine out of one hundred will die [in the fighting], and every man among them will say: 'Perhaps I may be the only one to remain alive'." — Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim.

■The Prophet Muhammad said: "The Euphrates reveals the treasures within itself. Whoever sees it should not take anything from it". — Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi `Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir az-Zaman, p. 28.

■It [the Euphrates] will uncover a mountain of gold [under it]. — Sunan Abi Da'ud. (QadeemMusalman (talk) 13:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC))

wheres tha euphrates river??[edit]

??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.72.0.235 (talk) 19:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Here. -LlywelynII (talk) 19:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion and mythology[edit]

Some important information was lost in 2010 deletions. Similar deletions were made in the Tigris article (on the grounds that it was "mostly unsourced and irrelevant for actual river"). Wikipedia contains many natural physical features, and in many cases, with associated religious, legendary or mythological status. This is an encyclopaedia, not a geographers' reference book. The Lesser Merlin (talk) 11:56, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

That might have been me. I agree that something could be said on the matter. However, I don't think it should be more than 1 or 2 sentences, since it is simply not an important issue compared to, say, the river's geography or how it is used today. I certainly don't think that every Bible book in which it occurs should be quoted. At most, their names can be mentioned and even that, I think, might be already too much. However, good sources need to be found to support this. So, yes, something could be said about religion, but the paragraph as it was should be drastically shortened, in my opinion. And it should be supported by wp:rs. --Zoeperkoe (talk) 13:35, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Adding Kurdish name[edit]

The Euphrates flows through the heart of Kurdistan and plays a central role as a symbol of Kurdish national identity. It's incredible that it hasn't been included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZanLJackson (talkcontribs) 13:35, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Mala River[edit]

= Euphrates! You can see this on internet: The equation of the Mala River with the Euphrates became evident only a few years later with the discovery of the Hattusili I bilingual (Otten 1958: 83, n. 28). Böri (talk) 13:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

On discharge[edit]

About two weeks back I made edits to the geobox regarding the river's discharge, which were contested and removed. However, I believe the convention for river infoboxes is to have the discharge figures reflect the longest time period of record, or as close to the natural discharge of the river as possible. The existing information in this article says that according to "early and mid 20th century figures" the "natural" discharge of the river is estimated at 36 km3 at Hīt, and that the average discharge "after 1990" is 11.2 km3/year. I assume that said "early and mid 20th century figures", which sounds like something between 1900-1970, reflects a longer record of river flows than "after 1990". Shannºn 22:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I did not know those were the requirements for the infobox (although I don't think it's a good convention; it should reflect current discharge and historic figures should be mentioned in the text as part of the history of the development of the river). Feel free to revert again.--Zoeperkoe (talk) 13:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC)