Talk:Population exchange between Poland and Soviet Ukraine

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Batch rename for all World War II evacuation and expulsion articles[edit]

Articles on those subjects are chaotically and confusingly named. Please see a proposal to standardize all names here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:57, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in process[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:World War II evacuation and expulsion which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RFC bot 01:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Recent name move[edit]

So the only reason I've noticed that User:Corinna Caudill has recently moved this page to "Forcible Expulsion" from "Repatriation" is because s/he has accused me of putting the word "repatriation" in this article despite the fact that so far I have never edited it. Putting that, as well as some other sketchy stuff aside, there was in fact a very long discussion about appropriate names for this and other articles [1]. The result, somewhat unsurprisingly, was "no consensus". Hence this recent move was against consensus.

As it happens I actually sort of agree with the current title (though I think the word "Forcible" is not necessary there) so I'm still considering whether or not to reverse this move myself.VolunteerMarek 23:25, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I, too took no part in the prior discussion, but also feel that Expulsion is a more accurate title and would support the current title over the prior one. "Forcible Expulsion" is redundant: all expulsions are forcible, by definition. I think we may have something approaching consensus here. Regards, TransporterMan (TALK) | DR goes to Wikimania! 03:16, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Corinna, would you be okay with just naming this article "Expulsion of Ukrainians from Poland to the Soviet Union". The "Forcible" is sort of redundant - it's pretty obvious that when somebody expels somebody, that is usually done forcibly. Let's keep in mind that we're having a little "local consensus" here which may or may not be contrary to broader consensus as established at the discussion so keeping the title neutral is a good idea.VolunteerMarek 03:19, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Use of word the forcible is redundant. Expultion ... mmm. I would prefer a softer term, because I do not think that all of the population was forced. Also the word expultion tends to bring up POV tags. Bandurist (talk) 12:34, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, absolutely most of the population was forced. If you understand the context of the history, the only Ukrainians who were "for" the expulsion were either part of a small Russophile movement (very small - most of them got killed at Talerhof after WWI) and people who had already lost their properties through destruction or some other reason. I didn't accuse anyone in particular of calling it a "repatriation" so let's not make this personal. I said "the author" or something general like that. I'll agree with either "Expulsion" or "forcible deportation" but absolutely not a "repatriation" because that's just untrue and makes no sense. One can call the Poles who were expelled from Ukraine a "repatriation" because where they lived in (what became) Western Ukraine had been part of Poland prior to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Act. The Lemkos/Ukrainians/Rusyns living in southeastern Poland had never been citizens of Soviet Ukraine, and were therefore not repatriated. Corinna Caudill (talk) 17:49, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

Since "expulsion" and "forcible deportation" mean about the same thing, I'm think that "expulsion" is appropriate, as long as the context of the article clearly shows that the deportations were forcible, and doesn't attempt to put some political spin on what happened to these people. I'm not saying that anyone here is doing that, but I've noticed this on several pages related to this topic. These were population exchange operations that were carried out by Polish and Soviet communists per an agreement in Sept. 1944 in Lublin. Both sides were deported forcibly. Very few people volunteered, and when the language implies that the moves were voluntary, that's where I have a problem. Corinna Caudill (talk) 17:56, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

By the way, Bandurist, if you have sources that prove otherwise (that it was voluntary) please provide them. I'd like to see that because it would be quite a discovery. The truth of the matter is that coercion was going on in the beginning of the operations. The Polish government was promising good land, but when the Ukrainians actually crossed the border, they found the truth - no Potemkin villages there! So guess what they did - they told other Ukrainians. Baba Babi Skazala - better than a 4G network. Corinna Caudill

I have moved the article to a title without "forcible"; I am not endorsing the expulsion title but we seem to have a consensus above that forcible is unnecessary. Plus, the title is now properly capitalized. Google search for Expulsion of Ukrainians gives 79 hits; Repatriation of Ukrainians, 628. Modified with Poland, we get 72:152. There are reliable reference for both (Piotrowski uses repatriation, Snyder expulsion, for example). Given the numerical advantage for reptariation, I do think the article should be restored to the previous title, with expulsion being an alternate (second bolded) title. If anybody disagrees, the article should be moved back to the original repatriation title (the recent move was done without a discussion), and a proper WP:RM discussion should be started for a move to the (current) expulsion title. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me 18:17, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Should be Evacuation and Expulsion of Ukrainians from Poland to the Soviet Union[edit]

80 000 volunteered (allegedly).Xx236 (talk) 10:38, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

See: The Transfer of Populations between Poland and Ukraine in: Heroes and Villains: Creating National History in Contemporary Ukraine by David R. Marples, Central European University Press, 2007. Poeticbent talk 19:17, 20 July 2016 (UTC)