Talk:Fair trade

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Former good article Fair trade was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
September 5, 2006 Peer review Reviewed
October 14, 2006 Good article nominee Listed
July 4, 2008 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article
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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Fair trade:
  • Rewrite Key fair trade principles in prose format.
  • Write short section on the worldshop movement and link to worldshop page
  • Write short section on Alternative trading organizations and link to ATO page
  • Create a new page History of fair trade and move the history section there (getting too long)
  • Write a short summary of the fair trade history and link to new History of fair trade page
  • Expand the section: Comparison with conventional trade
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"Fair Trade" or "fair trade"?[edit]

I would like to change the capitalization pattern throughout the whole article to be Fair Trade rather than fair trade or fairtrade. I think that capitalizing it in this way stresses that it is a movement and there is more behind it than just fairly traded goods. Please let me know your thoughts about this proposed change! ElleMegan (talk) 17:08, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

I moved the page to "Fair trade (movement)" to address concerns like the one you express, ElleMegan.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:24, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Check citations[edit]

It seems to me that many citations here are either unusually weak or somewhat misconstrued. For example, the sentence "The effectiveness of Fairtrade is questionable; workers on Fairtrade farms have a lower standard of living than on similar farms outside the Fairtrade system." carries a citation to this Economist article which does include that criticism, but is noted by the vast majority of commenters to be a misconstrual of the original report. I believe that many of the citations in this meandering article (both for and against) are likely to contain these subtle issues. Chyluchicago (talk) 15:41, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Criticism section placement[edit]

Why does the criticism section appear before the movement is even discussed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.171.145.18 (talk) 14:10, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

I thought that too. I changed it but it also seems a bit long. Munci (talk) 05:14, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

The problem is an overlong entry with vast amounts of information of little interest to most readers, history of the movement in great detail etc. It would be entirely inappropriate to put important criticisms after these, because nobody would ever read that far. So is anyone willing to cut down the description into a short, interesting, referenced, verifiable article?AidWorker (talk) 14:50, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

It's actually the "criticisms" that is overly long, filled with original research and interpretation, and vaguely sourced (when sourced at all). This section properly belongs at the end, and desperately needs to be trimmed considerably.Notmyrealname (talk) 19:45, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Really? The criticisms section looks fairly well sourced to me. Do you have any specific examples of OR or missing sources?
Picking a random example (very typical): "There have been largely political criticisms of Fairtrade from the left and the right. Some believe the fair trade system is not radical enough. French author Christian Jacquiau, in his book Les coulisses du commerce équitable, calls for stricter fair trade standards and criticizes the fair trade movement for working within the current system (i.e., partnerships with mass retailers, multinational corporations etc.) rather than establishing a new fairer, fully autonomous trading system. Jacquiau is also a staunch supporter of significantly higher fair trade prices in order to maximize the impact, as most producers only sell a portion of their crop under fair trade terms." This reads like a book report. It cites the whole book. Is the author speaking about the French version of FT or as it applies everywhere? "Left and Right" are vague descriptors.Notmyrealname (talk) 14:55, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I think that criticism sections in general are suboptimal - it's better to integrate criticism into the body of the article rather than having separate "pro" and "anti" blocks of text. However, this can take more work. Could we try integrating the criticism on this article? bobrayner (talk) 20:16, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
Interestingly enough, "pro" blocks of text are actually quite rare. Only with the most well-loved of public figures do you see a praise section. Usually it's neutral, possibly followed by "anti". ("anti" coming first here would be highly unusual) It seems that people are often quite negative in their inclusion of opinion in articles. Munci (talk) 12:17, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Unless people are content to trim this section I think that, because its size and the existence of separate history and certification pages, there should be a separate Criticisms of Fairtrade page. This would allow the arguments to be better organised and would have space for (well referenced) retorts against the criticism. It would be a much more appropriate use of wikipedia than the slightly old-fashioned "This is X and this is why some people think X is bad" style that we're trying to move away from. Kansaikiwi (talk) 04:18, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

If criticism would be copied to the Criticisms of Fairtrade article, it would be redundant; but if criticism were moved to the Criticisms of Fairtrade article it would be a pov fork and neither that article nor this one would be neutral. bobrayner (talk) 18:18, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
If we created a Criticisms of Fairtrade article, we could leave a small summary on this page. Leaving it as is, has gone from NPOV to undue. I think this is a reasonable compromise. Not all forks are unwise forks.Notmyrealname (talk) 15:40, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
Moving the criticisms would effectively restore the page to an advertisement for a highly suspect commercial brand, with all criticisms removed to a place where nearly all readers will miss them. The fact is that there have been an enormous number of criticisms, including criticisms by people broadly in favour, and there has been no response to cite. 10:05, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Notmyrealname objects to the bit on political basis of criticisms. But much of the debate very strongly influenced by the author's perception that he is on the right fighting the left, or vice versa. Personally I find that this part of the debate is confused, but my view is irrelevant. Someone has felt it necessary to mention this part of the debate, and I cannot disagree. Notmyrealname suggests, without evidence, that the French version of Fairtrade is different - how? I have not read Jacquieu but I gather much of his large book refers to the FLO central organization, e.g. monitoring and standards. And I cannot agree that anything written by people of a different nationality is automatically suspect.14:26, 5 July 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AidWorker (talkcontribs)

This isn't fair. There's criticism of capitalism, but we can't have criticism of fair trade? That doesn't make any logical sense. If there's a concern about the neutrality of this article, shouldn't we add some secondary arguments supporting fair trade like in the Capitalism article to be fair and impartial, or create another article entitled Criticism of fair trade and move the information there instead of deleting valuable information? Nashhinton (talk) 02:39, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Websites as sources[edit]

Over the years (see above) there have been repeated criticisms of the use of company or organization websites as sources. Again much of the plug for Fair Trade is based on them. Websites are written by highly paid public relations professionals to support the organization. When they have unsupported statements, vague statements,statements that a casual reader will misunderstand, and when relevant and readily available information is omitted, it is reasonable to suspect that there is an attempt to mislead.10:05, 5 July 2012 Statements like, "Fairtrade International claims that some fair trade products account for 20-50% of all sales in their product categories in individual countries, and in June 2008, claimed that over 7.5 million producers and their families were benefiting from fair trade funded infrastructure, technical assistance and community development projects.[1]" show the extremely misleading and false inferences that can be drawn.

Listing all the aims and values of an organization is similarly misleading. "Wants higher prices for exporters in the Third World, supports Trade Justice, fond of children, kind to animals" are the sort of thing most firms and organizations would claim, and none would publicly attack. Wikipedia should concentrate on statements of what they actually do,based on evidence. And if possible, state what resources are devoted to each strand: no doubt someone in the organization does sign a Trade Justice petition once a year, just to make it true.

(UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by AidWorker (talkcontribs)

Agricultural subsidies[edit]

Fair trade was created as a way to help level out/reduce the economic benefit that farmers in 1st world countries have; namely via the agricultural_subsidies. Please mention this in the article, it is very important that such background information is found at this page.

109.130.163.110 (talk) 08:10, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

  1. ^ Fairtrade [Labelling Organizations] International (2008).FLO International: Annual Report 2007. URL accessed on June 16, 2008.