Talk:Fall of the Ming dynasty

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Thinking this was a copyvio I googled... and found... much of the text was taken from Ming Dynasty.... so, it's just redundant it seems. gren グレン 00:26, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

That's where it originally came from.The Ming dynasty article was getting way to big and this material has been cut from there.Cetot 08:21, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

connotation of the term 'treachery'[edit]

The summary of the article has this phrase "which had fallen to the Manchu by treachery in 1621" the term 'treachery' seems pretty much emotional, rather than analytical, with a pro-Ming bias. Is there another way of saying the same? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.183.28.3 (talk) 22:25, 22 December 2012 (UTC)