Talk:Family of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge

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Please not that, as per WP:HONORIFIC, correct title of person is given firstly on the page - and then any other references are usually followed by surname only. Srbernadette (talkcontribs) 00:13, 28 March 2017‎ (UTC)

Template Noble House[edit]

I think that this idea is good, in fact, maybe this article should be retitled - Pippa Middleton is a well known figure - the title: Family of Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge is misleading as Catherine's sibligs, Pippa and James have their own Wikipedia articles etc etc. It really should be Middleton family. Srbernadette (talkcontribs) 00:14, 28 March 2017‎ (UTC)

This article is an exercise in name dropping.[edit]

This article is an exercise in name dropping. The interpretation of the Middleton and Lupton ancestors as landed gentry or aristocracy is nonsense. They were wealthy but at best they were tradesmen and businessmen who became professionals, ie lawyers. They didn't have ancestral seats but were property and landowners, not the same thing. They held civic positions and in that capacity entertained royalty. Kate Middleton is not a direct descendant of the Kitsons so why that photograph is there I don't know. Sources taken from the descriptions of photographs on "Leodis" cannot be described as WP:RS. Esemgee (talk) 14:33, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Disagree - this article is very well researched. Regarding the "status" of the Middleton/Lupton family. There are books published decades ago as well as the reliable Leeds Photographic Archives (which contains comments based on contemporary newspaper reports) which outline that the Lupton family were Yorkshire landowners from the 18th century - see "Further reading" section on this page. The Beechwood Estate in Roundhay is still - (in 2014) - in part owned by members of the Lupton family. At least 5 generations have owned the once large estate - well over 400 acres as recorded. This philanthropic family had a coat-of-arms granted to Yorkshireman Dr Roger Lupton by Henry VII which the Leeds-based Lupton were using in 1921 as the crest for Olive Middleton's family firm - William Lupton & Co. - which Olive had inherited. This page makes it clear that members of the Lupton family were indeed "titled". This page is not only about Kate Middleton's ancestry. It is about the history of the Middleton (and to a lesser extent the Lupton) families themselves. (talk) 07:53, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
This is an over-referenced article containing every trivial mention in any newspaper or online source. Titled is not the same as aristocratic, landowners are not landed gentry. Some Luptons were indeed 'titled' but not all of them and little mention is made of the business, where it was or how it contributed to the economy, instead it is about social life, titles and social connections. Information was added haphazardly and it had no structure. It is a poor example of an encyclopedic article. Esemgee (talk) 08:06, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Disagree. Please see the Lupton family page which goes into enormous detail about the history and progress of William Lupton & Sons (later "& Co") from the 18th to the mid 20th centuries. Books written decades ago reference Francis Lupton (d.1884) of both Beechwood and Newton Park Estates and his sons. Such books saw fit to reference this family based on their position in society as belonging to the "Titled, Landed & Official Classes". Moreover, many editions of Burkes Peerage records many members of the Lupton family, including the death in 1974 of Lady Bullock, nee Barbara May Lupton of Leeds. Please see the "Further reading" section at the bottom of this page. (talk) 08:48, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
No, it's not the Lupton article and it is over-referenced. Further reading should not contain quotes. It is a compilation of society trivia. It needs more reorganising for some kind of coherence. How many times does it mention Prince Philip's co-pilot? Too many. Esemgee (talk) 09:07, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I like your structural improvements to this page. (talk) 09:31, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
This article references books from publishers/writers that are respected. Lupton "family seat" was Beechwood, which was theirs from c 1859; they still own parts of the estate today! There are NO references in any books recent or historic or newspapers whereby the Luptons of Leeds are described as "Nouveau riche". We have checked. This idea of yours is all in your imagination. Please, Please accept the recorded facts. Cheers (talk) 10:45, 25 June 2017 (UTC)
Nothing is in my imagination, they made their money from commerce and property and nothing wrong with that. You can't believe everything you read in the newspapers, on photo captions or even the internet. Reporters are not historians. I don't know who "we" is but I am just one person and I log in. Do you have some connection to this family? You are very intent on providing a somewhat embellished version, trivial nonsense and all. I stand by what I wrote, "the Luptons were not aristocrats, they were nouveau riche of the 19th century and made their money through commerce and this article aims to mislead". Esemgee (talk) 16:57, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Poor references[edit]

I have removed several Daily Mail references but wonder why several others are considered reliable such as Hello magazine and other tabloid sources and the Leodis photographic site. Esemgee (talk) 07:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)