Talk:Fannie Lou Hamer

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Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. --KenWalker | Talk 06:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Another source

She died of heart failure according to Chana Kai Lee, not breast cancer... Another source for information on Fannie Lou Hamer: Chris Myers Asch, No Compromise: The Freedom Struggles of James O. Eastland and Fannie Lou Hamer (PHD Dissertation, University of North Carolina, 2005)

And another source

There's a "citation needed" tag on the sentence about Mississippi and forced sterilization. Here's a source for that:

Women of Color and the Reproductive Rights Movement by Jennifer Nelson, NYU Press, 2003. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Geeklizzard (talk • contribs) 06:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Medical Apartheid The Dark History of Medical Experimentation on Black Americans from Colonial Times to the Present by Harriet A. Washington. pg 179. Random House Press, New York 2006. Cac3521 (talk) 01:59, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Forced Sterilization

The article states that "[w]ithout her knowledge or consent, she was sterilized in 1961 by a white doctor as a part of the state of Mississippi's plan to reduce the number of poor blacks in the state."

This is patently absurd on its face. If Fannie Lou was born in 1917, then she was 43 or 44 in 1961, and it is absolutely pointless to sterlize a woman in her early 40's with the idea that the procedure is going to reduce the number of poor blacks in the state. By then, it is way too late. The source that is cited seems to be concerned with the ability to obtain an abortion, not with the ability to have a child. Does the cited source actually state that Fannie Lou was sterlized in her 40's? If it does, an appropriate quotation, along with the page number, should be included within the citation.

I also think that the "grandchild of a slave" designation is getting a little tiresome. If it is true, and can be supported by a citation to a reliable source, then fine, but it does not make Fannie Lou special. Most diligent and hardworking people are able to overcome the economic and political shortcomings of their grandparents. For example, I am white. My maternal grandparents were peasants in Ukraine. My paternal grandparents were sharecroppers in Kentucky and Tennessee. My paternal grandfather used to work two days on the road so that he could earn the $1.00 he needed to pay the poll tax, which was a prerequisite for voting in those days. His grandson (me) is a lawyer admitted to practice in three states.

John Paul Parks (talk) 05:29, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

It's mentioned on p.68. You can search in the Amazon or Google Books online version of the book.

"Her sterilization took place when she had to be hospitalized for the removal of a uterine tumor. Through the hospital grapevine, Hamer heard that her uterus had been excised (hysterectomy) during the operation. No doctor had informed her about the nature of her surgery or had acquired her consent for the procedure... Hysterectomy had become so common in Mississippi that it had gained the nickname 'Mississippi appendectomy' by physicians practicing in the region."

The endnotes in the book for this information are: Ellen Key Blunt, "Still to Overcome: She Found No Freedom," Washington Post, 27 January 1965, CI; Thomas B. Littlewood, "The Politics of Population Control" (Notre Dame, IN: University of Notre Dame Press, 1977), 74-75; Julius Paul, "The Return of Punitive Sterilization Proposals: Current Attacks on Illegitimacy and the AFDC Program," Law and Society Review 3, no.I (1968-69): 78, 90; Chana Kai Lee, "For Freedom's Sake: the Life of Fannie Lou Hamer" (Urbana: The University of Illinois Press, 1999), 80-81 Atherva (talk) 07:58, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

She had a uterine tumor?

In that case, then removal of her uterus was justified on medical grounds, and her race had absolutely nothing to do with it. Why leave the uterus in and risk the further spread of the cancer? Removal of the uterus also reflects the way they treated cancer back then. In those days, if a woman had a cancerous lump on her breast, they performed a radical mastectomy, to make sure they removed all the cancer. With Fannie Lou Hamer, the surgeon was in a no-win position. By removing the cancerous uterus of a 43-year old woman, he is subjected to the absurd allegation that he is attempting to reduce the number of black children in the state. Just how many more children did she plan to have at age 43? If the doctor had left it in, and the cancer had spread, I suppose your source would claim that he was not willing to provide proper treatment to black cancer patients. John Paul Parks (talk) 03:53, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Well, my Dad told me that he volunteered at Oregon State Hospital (the former state hospital for the insane) in the 1950s b/c his father wanted him to become an MD. My Dad said that he witnessed a patient being operated on. He said that the surgeon said, "well, we might as well take her uterus out too. At her age, (presumably a post-menopausal woman) she won't know the difference". My Dad thought that the surgeon had a "pathology" (his words). That is, the surgeon intentionally took out the uterus for his own sick reasons. This sort of thing was apparently not uncommon and done on people who did not have the ability to defend themselves. So, yes, I believe that they took Hamer's uterus out without needing to. It was a form of violation and an abuse of power and the surgeon knew it was when he did it.

Just so you know an uterine tumor does not mean a malignant (cancerous) tumor or one that requires hysterectomy. There are a variety of benign endometrial tumors (which are very common and much more common in black women; this is most likely what Fannie Lou suffered from). And even in the 60s they could be treated by simple excision of the tumor, not removing the whole uterus, and particularly not without the patient's prior consent and knowledge. This would be considered unethical and criminal even in the 60s. However, specially in those days black patients were often treated differently due to racism. There is substantial data from both patient, physician and media records, showing black patients received consistently different, specifically substandard, medical care, resulting in significant morbidity and mortality. One well-known case that you should have heard of in school was the Tuskegee trials, the repercussions of which shaped many changes in modern medical ethics. Furthermore there is also substantial data that minority women, specifically native american and black women, were forcibly sterilized even into the 70s. And if you dont want to believe that black patients, because of various factors including racism, are subject to different treatment in the medical system, particularly in very racist Jim Crow era USA-where they had very little protection and lacked the ability to exercise even their constitutional civil rights-then perhaps you should look into some current medical literature on health disparities. Even in our supposedly "post-racial" 2010 America, African Americans are more likely to receive harmful and substandard medical care, controlling for all confounding factors like SES, treatment facilities, patient morbidity, etc. ("Disparities in Cardiac Care", J of American College of Cardiology, 2004 for example but there are so many studies on this; there is even a study that shows AfAm are less likely to get treated for a heart attack even when they complain of the same symptoms as white patients-big no, no in the medical world, because you die if people are slow to recognize an MI. Its a major medical quality indicator.).

Why is it so hard for people to believe that prejudice/racism to this day has substantial impacts on the type of life people can live? Why is it hard to believe that the experience your grandparents had when entering this country (even are marginalized immigrants) would be substantially different from the life course of a black person's grandparents and thus their descendants as a result of race. At the very least your grandparents would not have had the KKK openly advocating for their deaths and taking action on that without any police recourse. B414artermis (talk) 02:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree with B414artermis on this one. I think that, although the inclusion of the information that her grandparents were slaves may or may not be relevant, the ability of your Ukrainian grandparents to raise themselves to the point where their grandson has become a lawyer is hardly relevant, and, indeed, is vastly different from the experience of African-Americans in this country. I am not African-American, but just a cursory study of the hardships that they had to endure, especially in the south where Fannie Lou Hamer was from, would reveal that this specific subgroup in the United States not only had to push against economic constraints, but also psychological and, indeed, physical ones, as well. They were not only looked down upon, but also spat on, beat, and murdered. Should your grandparents had to endure and overcome such hardships in order to succeed, their grandson may not have had the opportunity to become a lawyer. Even with the inclusion of such as these, however, there are, I'm sure, attorneys practicing law whose lineage includes slaves. So far removed from their ancestors, it is a thing of wonder that they have attained such, in so little time, despite the persistence of racism in the south, and the country. Was the road traveled by your ancestors fraught with hardship and trial? Of that I have very little doubt. But is there sufficient evidence to compare it to that of the African-American population in general and to therefrom conclude that the trials specific to African-Americans descended from slaves was of so little consequence as to not mention? I have not seen it. Especially in a woman born not far removed from that slavery, who did continue to endure periphery subjugation because of the self-same lineage, as well as the work she was trying to accomplish. If you have doubt of that, you can read the transcript of her testimony before the Democratic National Convention here (http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/sayitplain/flhamer.html). Yes, she was a grandchild of a slave. We should not forget that. African-Americans were so thoroughly denigrated that were we to forget that, then their continued struggle in poverty might lose focus. There are reasons for such a large group to be so thoroughly impoverished, and they do not wholly have to do with the lack of focus of the individual. In fact, it may have more to do with the teaching that, "somehow, we are less than a white person. Somehow, a white person can do more than me." No. Your ancestors were enslaved and made to think that. It was not true then, and it is not true now. Pick yourself up, just as this descendant of a slave did. Commit yourself to the truth that you can overcome, just as this descendant of a slave did. Claim yourself as a person, and not some kind of animal, just as this descendant of a slave did, and, thereby, ceased to be a slave herself. -F_N_Miranda@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.22.104 (talk) 18:43, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

How can you possibly know what my grandparents faced without ever having met them? If you think that their being white gave them any sort of advantage or privilege, you are sadly mistaken.

My grandmother was from Ukraine. Her ancestors had endured the persecutions of Catherine the Great in the late 1700's, forcing them to flee from Kiev to Lviv. My grandmother, born in 1900, lost her father at age 7, and her stepfather sent her out to work at the age of 10. Then came the First World War, and she had to hide in trees to avoid being raped by the Russian soldiers. The war, of course, turned the world upside down. Finally, she came to this country, not knowing a word of English, and without a cent in her pocket.

My grandfather was a Ukrainian living in the Bucovina region of Romania. He fled Romania in 1912 at the outbreak of the Second Balkan War to avoid conscription into the Romanian Army, and was able to reach Montreal. Unfortunately, he did not know any English or French, and worked in lumber camps or held whatever other job he could get to survive. He came into the United States in 1921, which is where he met my grandmother.

Getting to the United States was not the end of my grandparents' troubles. They were foreign-born, did not speak English, and were Catholics. As such, they were the targets of nativist groups who sought to limit the ability of foreign-born non-English speaking immigrants to work and live in the United States. Recall that the KKK did not care for Catholics either, even if they were white. Also, in the Detroit area, a group known as the Black Legion was quite active in its efforts to preserve the "purity" of the United States. The Black Legion members kept bullets in their pockets as a symbol of what they proposed to do foreigners in the United States.

So what did my grandparents do? Did they whine and tell everyone about their hardships and those of their ancestors? Did they think they were owed "reparations" or other assistance by the United States? No, they did not. They worked hard. They learned English. They became U.S. citizens. Once eligible, they voted in every election. They got married and then had children. In short, they followed the rules, raised a family, and did reasonably well for themselves and their family. I was admitted to the bar only 60 years after they were both in this country. As for Fannie Lou Hamer, it has been nearly 150 years since the Emancipation Proclamation and the abolition of slavery, and more almost 60 years since the decision in Brown v. Board of Education, and we are still hearing about the effects of "racism" in the United States, despite the fact that a black man is President of the United States.

This article seems predicated on the notion that black is uniformly good and that white is uniformly bad, and therefore suffers from a serious case of POV. It needs to be revised.

John Paul Parks (talk) 03:38, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

It's very clear in the Chana Kai Lee book, which is the seminal Hamer biography, that Hamer's sterilization WAS motivated by prejudice - even in the 1960s. Especially considering a sterilization bill for African Americans went before the Mississippi state legislature in 1964, three years AFTER Hamer's involuntary hysterectomy. Additionally, it is notable that Hamer is the granddaughter of slaves because her formerly enslaved grandmother shaped Hamer's ideas about race, gender and sex in an indelible way that shaped most aspects of her civil rights work. Let's read the books and cite the facts, y'all. Turbtastic (talk) 17:32, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

"Once eligible, they voted in every election." Interesting you should mention voting, because until 1964 the southern states had "literacy tests" which Ph.D's couldn't pass (one interesting account involves an Afro-American university professor who had to teach the poll worker how to read the passage for the literacy test, she still wasn't allowed to vote). I've often heard white supremecists argue that evidence of black inferiority comes from the fact that the children of white immigrants could pull themselves up while the children of black slaves could not, but the problem with that argument, and with yours is that the children of immigrant second-class citizens are natural-born Americans but the children of African-Americans (and their granchildren, and great grandchildren) are still African-Americans. And again, it is rather ironic that you would talk about voting and lifting ones self up through hard work in an article about a women who was beaten nearly to death, by officers of the law, for attempting to register African-American voters and for teaching them how to read. Tell me, how many people beat your parents for voting, because they were children of immigrants, how many people beat them because the learned to read? The information presented in the article is based on historical accounts and sources, we cannot ignore America's history of racism, slavery, and genocide any more then Germany can forget the Holocaust. We can't sweep our history under the rug. 107.10.53.28 (talk) 03:20, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Indeed not. And genocide is not a part of U.S. history as it relates to blacks no matter how badly you want it to be. You throw the word around because you find it suitable to your own prejudices and gives your opinion more weight. Go look up the definition.

Early life

Is there any info on who her parents were and her childhood? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.179.21 (talk) 08:18, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Other tributes

There happens to be a Fannie Lou Hamer Freedom High School in the background of this image in the South Bronx. Why isn't this listed? ---------User:DanTD (talk) 00:01, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

It is not clear to me why the fact that a podcaster cites Hamer as inspiration constitutes a tribute or merits inclusion here other than as advertising for said podcast?

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Philanthropy?

The article refer to Hamer as a "philanthropist", but does not describe any philanthropic acts. Anybody care to insert specifics? Isaac Rabinovitch (talk) 06:13, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Additional Sources

Gab410 (talk) 01:57, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

References

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Issues being worked on below
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
GA Review This review is transcluded from Talk:Fannie Lou Hamer/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. Reviewer: Courcelles (talk · contribs) 00:28, 26 January 2018 (UTC) A noteworthy person, to be sure, but the body doesn't justify calling her "and philanthropist"  Done--A21sauce (talk) 23:35, 26 January 2018 (UTC) Lede should be expanded into about two paragraphs for the length of the article. The first two one-paragraph sections should likely be a single section.  Not done Moved to parts into another new section.--A21sauce (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC) "During the 1950s, Hamer attended several annual conferences of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL) in the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi" Source? "On August 23, 1962, Rev. James Bevel, an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and an associate of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., gave a sermon in Ruleville, Mississippi. He followed it with an appeal to those assembled to register to vote.... Hamer was the first volunteer to respond to Bevel's call." Sourcing? "with other Bevel volunteers to" Strange phrasing  Done--A21sauce (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC) "Her courage and leadership in Indianola came to the attention of SNCC organizer Bob Moses. He dispatched Charles McLaurin from SNCC to find "the lady who sings the hymns". McLaurin found and recruited Hamer, and though she remained based in Mississippi, she began traveling around the South doing activist work for the organization." Sources, please, especially for that direct quote. "Released on June 12, Hamer needed more than a month to recover... " Whole paragraph could use sourcing. "However, many television networks ran Hamer's speech unedited on their late news programs. The Credentials Committee received thousands of calls and letters in support of the Freedom Democrats." Source? "Johnson then dispatched several trusted Democratic Party operatives to attempt to negotiate with the Freedom Democrats, including Senator Hubert Humphrey (who was campaigning for the Vice-Presidential nomination), Walter Mondale, and Walter Reuther, as well as J. Edgar Hoover. They suggested a compromise which would give the MFDP two non-voting seats in exchange for other concessions, and secured the endorsement of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for the plan. But when Humphrey outlined the plan, saying that his position on the ticket was at stake, Hamer, invoking her Christian beliefs, sharply rebuked him:" You source the quote, but not the other details. "In 1964 and 1965 Hamer ran for Congress, but lost." She ran twice? When was the actual election? "the nutritional needs of the America's most disenfranchised peoples" of the America's? "and a re-training" No need for the "a" "Sharecropping was the most common form of post-slavery activity and income in the South." Source that. Link James Eastland "Hamer was not happy with this motive so she pioneered the Freedom Farm, an attempt to redistribute economic power across groups and to solidify an economic standing amongst African-Americans." Source? "Through her main tactic of using Christian love to foster change, Fannie Lou often referenced the Book of Acts in the Bible to describe her motives: “All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute their possessions to all, as any had need (2:44-45).” Her dream was for there to be no division among peoples and for the Black lower class to be able to stand on their own." Yet more unsourced text. " not afford to house the land any longer." House? Is that really the right word? "Honorary Degree of Doctor of Humanities from Tougaloo College and Shaw University," Sources? "On October 6, 2012 (the 95th anniversary of Hamer's birth), a musical written by Felicia Hunter — titled Fannie Lou — was premiered in New York City." No external links in article text. Legacy section, every item needs a source, and some of these may well not be notable enough for inclusion. Ref 26, "ASCH, CHRIS MYERS" Don't all-caps author names just because the link does. "New York Times", "No, this needs "the" definite article before it. Also needs accessdate. You've got at least a few of your cited sources in "further reading" at this point. Separate those out under a "Works Cited" or something. The Wikiquote link goes in the EL section, not the See Also. " In Freedomways 5, 1965: 231–242." Something went wrong here. Ref 22 needs an ISBN Okay, that's the specific issues worth pointing out, now let's talk generally: The article is choppy in places, lots of short paragraphs. It could use a general copy-edit. Check that you're sourcing your facts. I found a lot of unsatisfactorily-cited sections above, so do a general read-through for where you need to bring in more citations. I'm going to fail this article for now, but please renominate it when these issues are addressed and it has received a thorough copy-edit for flow. Courcelles (talk) 01:11, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

GA Workshop

2nd review in progress below.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This review is transcluded from Talk:Fannie Lou Hamer/GA workshop. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. A noteworthy person, to be sure, but the body doesn't justify calling her "and philanthropist"  Done--A21sauce (talk) 23:35, 26 January 2018 (UTC) Lede should be expanded into about two paragraphs for the length of the article.  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 16:44, 31 January 2018 (UTC) The first two one-paragraph sections should likely be a single section.  Not done Moved to parts into another new section.--A21sauce (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC) "During the 1950s, Hamer attended several annual conferences of the Regional Council of Negro Leadership (RCNL) in the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi" Source?  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 12:59, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "On August 23, 1962, Rev. James Bevel, an organizer for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC) and an associate of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., gave a sermon in Ruleville, Mississippi. He followed it with an appeal to those assembled to register to vote.... Hamer was the first volunteer to respond to Bevel's call." Sourcing?  Done - Removed copyyrighted material quote refers to. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 21:22, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "with other Bevel volunteers to" Strange phrasing  Done--A21sauce (talk) 21:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC) "Her courage and leadership in Indianola came to the attention of SNCC organizer Bob Moses. He dispatched Charles McLaurin from SNCC to find "the lady who sings the hymns". McLaurin found and recruited Hamer, and though she remained based in Mississippi, she began traveling around the South doing activist work for the organization." Sources, please, especially for that direct quote.  DoneA21sauce (talk) 19:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "Released on June 12, Hamer needed more than a month to recover... " Whole paragraph could use sourcing.  Done--A21sauce (talk) 19:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "However, many television networks ran Hamer's speech unedited on their late news programs. The Credentials Committee received thousands of calls and letters in support of the Freedom Democrats." Source?  Done--A21sauce (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "Johnson then dispatched several trusted Democratic Party operatives to attempt to negotiate with the Freedom Democrats, including Senator Hubert Humphrey (who was campaigning for the Vice-Presidential nomination), Walter Mondale, and Walter Reuther, as well as J. Edgar Hoover. They suggested a compromise which would give the MFDP two non-voting seats in exchange for other concessions, and secured the endorsement of Martin Luther King, Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference for the plan. But when Humphrey outlined the plan, saying that his position on the ticket was at stake, Hamer, invoking her Christian beliefs, sharply rebuked him:" You source the quote, but not the other details.  Not done Large copyvio removed... section needs to be re-expanded now. old source link — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 08:07, 31 January 2018 (UTC) Rewrite/copy edit Civil rights activism section. "In 1964 and 1965 Hamer ran for Congress, but lost." She ran twice? When was the actual election?  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:01, 31 January 2018 (UTC) "the nutritional needs of the America's most disenfranchised peoples" of the America's?  Done--A21sauce (talk) 21:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC) "and a re-training" No need for the "a"  Done--A21sauce (talk) 21:09, 8 February 2018 (UTC) "Sharecropping was the most common form of post-slavery activity and income in the South." Source that. Link James Eastland  Done--A21sauce (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2018 (UTC) "Hamer was not happy with this motive so she pioneered the Freedom Farm, an attempt to redistribute economic power across groups and to solidify an economic standing amongst African-Americans." Source?  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 11:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC) "Through her main tactic of using Christian love to foster change, Fannie Lou often referenced the Book of Acts in the Bible to describe her motives: “All who believed were together and had all things in common; they would sell their possessions and goods and distribute their possessions to all, as any had need (2:44-45).” Her dream was for there to be no division among peoples and for the Black lower class to be able to stand on their own." Yet more unsourced text. " not afford to house the land any longer." House? Is that really the right word?  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 11:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC) "Honorary Degree of Doctor of Humanities from Tougaloo College and Shaw University," Sources?  Done and degree from Shaw fixed.--A21sauce (talk) 19:47, 31 January 2018 (UTC) "On October 6, 2012 (the 95th anniversary of Hamer's birth), a musical written by Felicia Hunter — titled Fannie Lou — was premiered in New York City." No external links in article text.  Done--A21sauce (talk) 20:33, 30 January 2018 (UTC) Legacy section, every item needs a source, and some of these may well not be notable enough for inclusion.  Done though I think we could delete some items, like the children's book, as there must be several out there on her.--A21sauce (talk) 21:02, 31 January 2018 (UTC) Ref 26, "ASCH, CHRIS MYERS" Don't all-caps author names just because the link does.  Done Fixed all instances.--A21sauce (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2018 (UTC) "New York Times", "No, this needs "the" definite article before it. Also needs accessdate.  Done You've got at least a few of your cited sources in "further reading" at this point. Separate those out under a "Works Cited" or something. The Wikiquote link goes in the EL section, not the See Also.  Done--Fishlandia (talk) 14:01, 31 January 2018 (UTC) " In Freedomways 5, 1965: 231–242." Something went wrong here.  Done; link was to logged-in page at a school library (?); changed source. Fishlandia (talk) 13:56, 31 January 2018 (UTC) Ref 22 needs an ISBN  Done; needed a page number too, so I replaced source--13:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC) Okay, that's the specific issues worth pointing out, now let's talk generally: The article is choppy in places, lots of short paragraphs. It could use a general copy-edit. Check that you're sourcing your facts. I found a lot of unsatisfactorily-cited sections above, so do a general read-through for where you need to bring in more citations. I'm going to fail this article for now, but please renominate it when these issues are addressed and it has received a thorough copy-edit for flow. Courcelles

References, Further reading, External links, Early life

I'll work on checking, conforming and sorting the references, further reading and ext links sections this morning so that content can be easily cited. Also working on the Early life section which has some incorrect and some missing information. I do apologize. Something's come up and I'll be busy for the next couple of days. Fishlandia (talk)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Fannie Lou Hamer/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 14:03, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

I'll take this one - I see many of the issues from the first GA review have been addressed. I'm still a bit concerned about some of the prose and sourcing, and have tagged immediate issues. I tend to copyedit as I go and raise issues accordingly. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:03, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Lead

• "(The people she worked alongside suffered similarly as well, with at least one acolyte killed.)" - why is this here, in brackets?
  • As I have no idea... I've removed it.  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 16:14, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "She later led thousands of African-Americans in Mississippi to the polls" - I don't think she personally rounded up thousands of people and marched them to the polling boths; maybe this should be toned down eg: "she encouraged thousands of African-Americans in Mississippi to vote"
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 16:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "In 1970 she led legal action against the county of Sunflower County, Mississippi for continued illegal segregation" - a county is an abstract concept and cannot enforce segregation - shouldn't this be "she led legal action against the government of Sunflower County ...." or something similar?
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 16:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Early life, family and education

• "When their animal stock was mysteriously poisoned" - do we know anything more about this?
  • Added more information, mostly a quote from Hamer talking about how she suspects white supremacy was behind it.  Done — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:15, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "family moved to Sunflower County in 1919 to work as sharecroppers on W. D. Marlow's plantation." - this implies the whole family worked on the plantation, was that the case?
  • Yes, up until she was forced off it, and then later her husband for her attempting to get registered to vote. Their children I doubt were old enough at that time, so perhaps we could say Mr. and Mrs. Hamer instead of "family"? — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
    •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:15, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "Hamer could pick 200 to 300 pounds of cotton daily" - any chance of a conversion to metric?
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• The last sentence in this section has a "when" tag
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:19, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Civil rights activism

• Do we need the quotation that starts this section? It doesn't really make much sense if the reader hasn't read the rest of the content first
  •  Done Moved quote. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:20, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "On August 31, 1962, Hamer traveled" - I can't remember if US English has only one "l" - does it?
  • @Ritchie333: I'm not quite sure what you're asking here... — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:25, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Simply that my spell-checker puts a red-line under "traveled" suggesting "travelled", which I think is just a mismatch against US / UK English, and just want confirmation there is no actual issue here. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:27, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Ah! Oh yes, @Ritchie333: It is indeed a common US spelling. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:29, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• Do we know anything more about the literacy test described here? Main reason I ask is we have something similar in the UK for immigrants called the Life in the UK Test (there's a potential Wikipedia article) which you need to pass to gain residency. It's full of things like "what major era of British History ended with the Battle of Bosworth Field in 1485?" which many native Britons could not answer.
  •  Fixed I've added a wikilink to explain the tests. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:25, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• The block quotation about the police beatings seems overly-detailed. Can we simply summarise this in prose?
  • It is possible to. However I would highly prefer if we could keep it, as it's one of the most graphic first-hand deceptions of what blacks had to face in the Southern US all the time just a few years ago. (and honestly till this day to a large extent)... @Ritchie333: I've moved it in the section though, do you think that will work? — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:28, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

For me it's overly graphic - we get the basic gist from the rest of the prose that the police were being unreasonable and aggressive without having to go into the specifics. It's also close paraphrasing of a source, which a GA should not have (see criteria 2d). Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:10, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

•  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 20:45, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

• "After becoming a field secretary for the SNCC in 1963" - what's the SNCC?
  • Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, which I believe is spelled out already somewhere in the article a few times (with SNCC in parenthetical). — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "a Mississippi State highway patrolman took out his billy club and intimidated the activists to leave" - what's a "billy club" and would "instructed" or "forced" be better than "intimidated"?
  • A billy club is similar to a police baton (I think that's what you call them across the pond...) I used intimidated here because he didn't actually strike them with it.... more used it in a threatening manner to get them to leave the establishment. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:33, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Freedom Democratic Party and Congressional run

• "that would give the Freedom Democratic Party two seats" - is this the same party as the "Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party" mentioned earlier?
  • Yes, they are one and the same. Hamer usually only referred to it as the FDP, but others refer to it as the MFDP. The Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party article needs to be updated to reflect this. (with something like, "also known as the Freedom Democratic Party") — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:34, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Later activism

• What makes HottyToddy.com a reliable source?
  •  Fixed Replaced with better source. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:40, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• One of the book sources, needs a page number - I've tagged this accordingly
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:39, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
• "The FFC aided in securing 35 FHA-subsidized house" - what's the FHA?
  •  Fixed It is referring to a US government department: Federal Housing Administration. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 17:42, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Honors and awards

• This section would sit better as prose than a list. There is one claim I couldn't find in a source (tagged) which says that Hamer is well-known with Tougaloo College but does not specifically mention that she received a honorary degree from them. The "List of tributes" section in particular needs a close check, several are not cited to what I would normally call reliable sources. I wouldn't worry too much about taking a scythe to this one; compare the "Cultural references" section of Trellick Tower before I started work on it to what it is now. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
  •  Fixed List is now prose where it needs to be (tributes). I've also removed dubiously sourced content, even though it is likely accurate. — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 20:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

References

• I'm going through and converting book references to shortened footnotes with proper formatting; it makes the prose easier to edit as the reference tags take up less space, plus it allows easier navigating and forces me to check the sources exist and validate the claims given. One other source (Marsh 1997) was missing page numbers; these will need to be added. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 17:56, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
  •  Fixed — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 20:58, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Summary

• I'm all done with the first pass of the article, having looked at everything in depth. I don't see any insurmountable problems that can't be fixed within a week, so I'll put the review on hold now. Main issues I see is that some of the citations are incomplete and need checking, the issue with close paraphrasing / quotes as described above, and the final bulleted list needs serious attention. Once all that's done, I'll have another read through and see what other work is required - at that point we should be close to meeting the GA criteria I think. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 18:18, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
  • @Ritchie333: I've  Fixed most of the issues I think, let me know if I'm missing anything else! — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 21:01, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Just having another read through, one outstanding thing I missed : "This requirement had emerged in some (mostly former confederate) states after the right to vote was first given to all races by the 1870 ratification of the Fifteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution. These laws along with the literacy tests and local government acts of coercion, were used against blacks and Native Americans" The source given doesn't seem to support all of this, it's more just a general description of the literacy test.

Other than that, I've tidied up the prose a bit more and pending the above source check, we should be good to go. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 21:21, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Of course, since the only thing stopping this from GA now is some sourcing issues, we could always just ping Megalibrarygirl and get her to have a quick shufti. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:04, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Ritchie333: do you just need the sources cleaned up/verified/both? :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:08, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl: Just a source that verifies the text in green above - AFAIK all the sources pass muster since I've checked them. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

OK! Cool. I'll see what I can find, Ritchie333 Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:10, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Ritchie333 I added a Civil rights report for Mississippi from 1965 and a NYT article about the poll taxes. Interestingly, I just wrote Evelyn Thomas Butts who was one of the activists to helped abolish poll taxes. She was from Virginia. :) Megalibrarygirl (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Good stuff, so on that note I think this meets the GA criteria and I'm happy to pass the review. A good result for Black History Month, I think. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 23:31, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Infobox image

The recently added image to the infobox looks, well, unfortunate. It shows Hamer in a bad light, so I've reverted. I much prefer the earlier photo, which was a fairly neutral shot of her in mid-campaign, which illustrates her life well. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:38, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

I should probably renominate that image soon for FP. Still think it deserves it. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 6.8% of all FPs} 15:00, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

Adam Cuerden, I think you should link to a YouTube video like this one in your nomination. People don't seem to understand why this photo is historically significant and that a photo of another day will not do. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 15:16, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

FLH's Run for Congress

So, this article doesn't have any information -- other the section headline -- about her run for Congress. It was apparently quite a seminal event in American politics. There's a useful summary of it here: https://www.democracydocket.com/2021/05/how-fannie-lou-hamer-created-a-tool-to-fight-voter-suppression-today/ Karichisholm (talk) 21:32, 25 May 2021 (UTC)