Talk:Founders: A Novel of the Coming Collapse

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I see that this article has been nominated for deletion. I don't think that deletion would be justified. This completed book is indeed scheduled for release on September 25th. It is already being pre-sold in hard copy and e-book (Kindle and Nook) by both Amazon and by Barnes & Noble. Its predecessor "Survivors") reached #3 on the New York Times bestseller list and was also in Amazon's Top Ten sellers.

Here are some sites where it is is being pre-sold:



Many other completed books by bestselling authors (and even some that were still being written) have also had Wiki pages well before their release dates:

For example, the latest Terry Pratchett novel, Snuff had a Wikipedia page TWO YEARS before its release. (Check the article's WP editing log, which was started in July, 2010.)


Tom Wolfe's fourth novel has also had a WP page, long before its release. See:

Major movies (like ) and even minor movies (like: ) have WP pages LONG before their release..

The novel Founders isn't vaporware. It EXISTS, and reviews will soon be released. (The author has sent out reviews copies of the COMPLETED manuscript.)

A major publisher like Simon & Schuster wouldn't take orders for a book unless it was already in the final stages of editing.

I strongly suggest retaining this page.

DiligenceDude (talk) 15:07, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

WP:NBOOKS requires independent third party coverage - that's not just a listing for sale, but discussions of the book in independent sources such as book reviews, newspapers, etc. for an article to exist. I'm not seeing the independent coverage on THIS book - the fact that an earlier book made the best seller list isn't germane to whether this article should exist yet - nor does deleting it now (or merging its content into Rawles' article, which is also an option), preclude later recreating it if it makes the best seller list ... the point is... the article fails WP:NBOOKS as it stands. Ealdgyth - Talk 15:59, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Also note Wikipedia:Notability (books)#Not yet published books which states "Articles about books that are not yet published are strongly discouraged and such articles are only accepted under criteria other than those provided in this guideline, typically because the anticipation of the book is notable in its own right." ... I'm not seeing the independent coverage of the anticipation before this book is published... Ealdgyth - Talk 16:13, 11 June 2012 (UTC)


The categories listed are accurate. (I've read a review copy of the book.) GOODtoWyoming (talk) 04:15, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

The Odd Comma[edit]

Another editor flagged the mention of the comma in Rawles's name in a review by Gregory Cowles, a New York Times staff writer [1], and suggested that it be discussed. The odd comma has also been mentioned by Sara Nelson of The Daily Beast[2], by WORLD magazine[3], by the Southern Poverty Law Center[4]and in a whole bunch of blogs and discussion forums. (Just Google this:" James Wesley Rawles comma".) I even found it discussed in a coin collecting forum. [5] It seems to be an affectation. Is it just to get attention? Who knows? He claims to do it to make a point about Common Law. It seems to be part of his persona, so it would be relevant. DiligenceDude (talk) 05:36, 16 October 2012 (UTC)