Talk:Fragile masculinity

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On 4 December 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Masculine fragility to Fragile masculinity. The result of the discussion was moved.

Other significant viewpoints

A tag had been placed recommending that this article can be improved and should include all significant viewpoints. I have added more references and expanded the discussion of several of the topics to address this issue. Please add other viewpoints to improve this article.Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: University Writing 1020 Communicating Feminism TR1 pm

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 January 2024 and 15 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jshinnn (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Jshinnn (talk) 03:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work.

North8000 (talk) 14:46, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

POV tag to be removed?

Drmies added a POV tag to this article; I believe it is time to remove this, as there have been many further edits addressing this problem. Comments, please.Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:05, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Meh, I'm fine with that, yes. Drmies (talk) 02:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Origin of the concept

I would like to know what the origin of this term is? Who came up with it? What is the proof that it even exists? It seems as though it is axiomatically true with no proof required. I see it used a lot by feminists to bash males. 67.204.247.30 (talk) 00:22, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The very first reference is an article in an academic peer-reviewed journal. If you understand the weight of that, then your question is answered, I believe. Drmies (talk) 02:38, 25 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 December 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Frost 19:23, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Masculine fragility → Fragile masculinity – Per WP:COMMONNAME, see sources like this. Furthermore "masculine fragility" can refer to something non-personality-related, while "masculinity" makes it clear what is being referred to. In fact, I'm not even sure if "masculine fragility" should be kept as a redirect due to its heavy vagueness. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:27, 4 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 11:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. ASUKITE 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP current title with Fragile masculinity and Male Fragility as redirects. The title is describing an identity.^[1] As per WP:COMMONNAME, there is not a significant majority of independent, reliable, English-language sources that favors either.Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:18, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Google Ngrams currently has Fragile Masculinity more common than Masculine Fragility, at a 13:1 proportion in 2022. Docsisbored (talk) 07:21, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed the above and it is correct.Mwinog2777 (talk) 17:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what to say besides pointing out that you are clearly misreading it. It only refers to "masculine identity". Manhood is the gender identity they are talking about, not "masculine fragility". ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:54, 8 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re WP:COMMONNAME: "Masculine fragility" was used in a university writing course. See above contributions to this page. (This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 15 January 2024 and 15 May 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jshinnn

If the outcome of this discussion is to change the title, there should be two redirects as I mentioned.Mwinog2777 (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: No clear consensus on keeping or moving ~/Bunnypranav:<ping> 11:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No !vote on the move from me as of yet, but there's no case that I can see for suppressing the redirect if the page is moved. The redirect should be kept as per our redirect suppression policy. Andrewa (talk) 20:36, 18 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, WikiProject Psychology, WikiProject Sociology, and WikiProject Gender studies have been notified of this discussion. ASUKITE 18:33, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Second relist to give time for WP notifications, still no clear consensus ASUKITE 18:34, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support but do create a redirect. I don't know where else it'd target but this article (if there are alternative titles, RFD could make sense). Just by searching the titles of the sources of the current page show that "fragile masculinity" is significantly more common name for this (along with ngrams. Skynxnex (talk) 20:18, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support - the masculinity is what's fragile, not men themselves. Red Slash 22:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Stanaland, Adam; Gaither, Sarah; Gassman-Pines, Anna (2023-11-01). "When Is Masculinity "Fragile"? An Expectancy-Discrepancy-Threat Model of Masculine Identity". Personality and Social Psychology Review. 27 (4): 359–377. doi:10.1177/10888683221141176. ISSN 1088-8683.

Support - For its part, in terms of the compiled scholarly sources within its database, searching both terms on Google Scholar reports an order of magnitude more hits for the latter proposed name in comparison to the current name. 148 hits for "masculine fragility" versus 1720 hits for "fragile masculinity" . Sleath56 (talk) 23:48, 19 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support. I have always heard of it as the term "fragile masculinity". JIP | Talk 23:10, 21 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Toxic masculinity, race, ethnicity

Race and ethnicity are also factors that contribute to women's experiences as victims of toxic masculinity. When men who have an insecure sense of masculinity and an unawareness of their gender privilege are threatened by femininity they often react aggressively or harmfully as they view the feminine sphere as threat to their privileges. When race and ethnicity become factors imbedded in a perceived feminine threat male identifying individuals have another modality to wield as an anthesis to the patriarchal white supremacist structures that prize their masculinity. In attacking female identifying individuals racial and ethnic identities as well as their femininity men are able to employ intersectional ^[1] levels of oppression that highlight social hierarchies which uplift white, heterosexual, masculinity. Particular types of fragile masculinity have been on the rise with the ability to network violence towards women in online spaces; garnering hashtags such as #MasculinitySoFragile ^[2] which demonstrate how virality can override verification of fact as male domination over women is socially constructed. Networking hostility towards women allows for the creation of online spaces to be carved out as places where men can gather to perpetuate toxic masculinity anonymously to strengthen their connections to patriarchal systems of power. These spaces especially target violence towards women of colour as patriarchy is intertwined with white supremacy so men are able to further exercise power over women by including dimensions of race and ethnicity to place them in further opposition to the white supremacist patriarchal structures of power which have become widespread global tools for the oppression of women.

^ Crenshaw, Kimberle (1991). "Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics, and Violence against Women of Color". Stanford law review. 43 (6): 1241–1299. doi:10.2307/1229039.

^ Banet-Weiser, Sarah; Miltner, Kate M. (2015). "#MasculinitySoFragile: culture, structure, and networked misogyny". Feminist Media Studies. 16 (1): 171–174. doi:10.1080/14680777.2016.1120490.

The cited sources do not support the majority of the removed text, which states opinions as facts (granted, that's also a problem in the rest of the article). For one thing, Banet-Weiser & Miltner don't actually use the term "fragile masculinity", let alone say it has been rising. There's some valuable information here, but it needs better sourcing and rewriting to be more neutral. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 00:03, 25 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Stanaland, Adam; Gaither, Sarah; Gassman-Pines, Anna (2023-11-01). "When Is Masculinity "Fragile"? An Expectancy-Discrepancy-Threat Model of Masculine Identity". Personality and Social Psychology Review. 27 (4): 359–377. doi:10.1177/10888683221141176. ISSN 1088-8683.

[2] Crenshaw, Kimberle (1991). "Mapping the Margins: Intersectionality, Identity Politics, and Violence against Women of Color". Stanford law review. 43 (6): 1241–1299. doi:10.2307/1229039.

[3] Banet-Weiser, Sarah; Miltner, Kate M. (2015). "#MasculinitySoFragile: culture, structure, and networked misogyny". Feminist Media Studies. 16 (1): 171–174. doi:10.1080/14680777.2016.1120490.

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