Talk:Francis Bacon

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Reliability of Nieves Mathews.[edit]

Is her opinion about Bacon's homosexuality really reliable ? On her wikipedia page, it is stated that she was deeply influenced by Rajneesh who suggested and "blessed" the writing of this biography, the same man for whom "Homosexuals, because they were perverted, created the disease AIDS" and who said to "a gay sannyasin" that "as a homosexual, (he was) not even a human being". Isn't it a big bias ? […]." (talk) 04:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Her work is cited here for non-controversial details, or for examples of opinions in the debate about his sexuality, so I don't see this as an issue. Lot's of people, including academics, have belonged to religious groups who's leaders have disparaged homosexuality or held regressive views, but we don't automatically dismiss them for it. Even if we accepted the connection between her religion and her position on Bacon's sexuality, WP:BIASED sources are not necessarily unreliable sources. So did Rajneesh say something relevant specifically about Bacon? More importantly, did Mathews say that about Bacon, or did she cite her religious beliefs as part of her work? If so, that might be a problem, but even so it's all about context. Grayfell (talk) 04:48, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I thank you for you answer. I think it's a problem because on the one hand, Nieves Mathews stated herself candidly that this book was Rajneesh's idea ; the same Rajneesh who, she wrote, "thought highly of Sir Francis Bacon" and who, otherwise, was clearly homophobic. And on the other hand, the title of the book itself "Francis Bacon: The History of a Character Assassination" suggest the aim to whitewash a priori all "unpleasant" sides (homosexuality is clearly part of these in their mind) of the character. I just think all of this isn't uninteresting, but anyway it's just an observation that had to be made -on the PD at least-, I believe. (talk) 05:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
It's worth considering. Looking at the talk page archives, it appears someone brought this up back in October 2007, but it couldn't hurt to readdress it every ten years or so. I think it would be a mistake to hold her religious life against her. Her assessment of Bacon may possibly be biased or opinionated, but that doesn't necessarily make the factual aspects false. We usually give the fact-checking of reputable academic publishers like Yale University Press the benefit of the doubt. It also sets a dangerous and unpleasant precedent to discount her through guilt by association. Frankly, I'm also cautious of her work with Velikovsky, as his theories are at the extreme edges of academia. There, also, I think dismissing her work would be an overreaction, but it's worth treating with caution. Grayfell (talk) 05:41, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Removed due to inappropriateness on my part. However, I thought was in a new section. If inadvertently removed anything other than my comments, my apologies.

Francis Bacon[edit]

Is he not an Irishman? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:22, 26 October 2016 (UTC)

"The Father of the Scientific Method"[edit]

Despite the myth, Bacon is hardly the father of the scientific method. Robert Grossetesta (ca. 1168–1253), Bishop of Lincoln, had laid down the cannons of a far better experimental method, including the need for controlled experiments. This is well documented in works dealing with the history of science in the Middle Ages such as James Hannam, The Genesis of Science:How the Christian Middle Ages Launched the Scientific Revolution. It is time to end this distortion of the history of science. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dfpolis (talkcontribs) 14:45, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Long Lasting Influence[edit]

I am puzzled by this section in the introduction: "While his own practical ideas about such a method, the Baconian method, did not have a long lasting influence, ..." The Wikipedia article on Baconian Method does not include this kind of negative statement. Does anyone have a reference for that comment? Would anyone object if I removed it from the introduction? Olorinish (talk) 05:11, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Possibly the intended point is not so clear, and should be worded better instead of removed. Bacon famously argued for the use of a skeptical method in science, and that is of course extremely influential. But the specific detailed method he gave is not really one anyone uses. (The two tables: "Table of Essence and Presence", and "Table of Deviation, or of Absence in Proximity".) I am not sure if anyone ever used these tables much. In other words his general proposal for method was very successful, but (less importantly) his specific methods were not.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:52, 22 November 2017 (UTC)