Talk:Frankie Goes to Hollywood

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Former featured article candidate Frankie Goes to Hollywood is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
February 13, 2005 Featured article candidate Not promoted

Jacob Moogberg[edit]

This article doesn't mention Jacob Moogberg. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

T shirts[edit]

What about the "Frankie says Go to Hollywood... Who gives a fuck what Frankie says" T shirts?Exploding Boy 13:41, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

  • Dunno about those, but I typed 'Frankie Say Relax' into Wikipedia and ended up here, when I was actually looking for Katharine Hamnett, who designed the shirts. Should those keywords point here or redirect to her page? JaffaCakeLover (talk) 10:56, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
    • The FGTH shirts were based on Hamnett's "Choose Life" shirt, but not designed by her... Paul Morley designed them. Hence, definitely no re-direct needed. And don't believe what you may read on the Hamnett article itself either - nothing on there is sourced and most of it's made up. Seems to me that you only have to write on a T-shirt and it's suddenly "designed by Hamnett"... May try to remove some of the crud if I can dig out a source or two... --DaveG12345 (talk) 18:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
      • OK, I had a go at fixing the Hamnett article, and a few other Hamnett references around WP that over-stated her involvement in the FGTH stuff and generally gushed on in a rather fancrufty way too... Will probably try to inject some of this cited info into the FGTH/Morley articles later too.--DaveG12345 (talk) 11:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Name Origin[edit]

Regarding the name origin, although it's usually explained as a reference to Frank Sinatra, I'm pretty sure it was actually Frankie Vaughan, which makes a hell of a lot more sense when you consider how proud FGTH were of their Liverpool roots. (It also fits Vaughan's career path better - and of course Frankie Vaughan was actually known as Frankie, which one would have thought was a dead giveaway.) Bonalaw 14:30, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I have only heard the Sinatra version. But now that you mention it, the Vaughan version seems more likely. Feel free to edit the article. 16:50, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've heard another version: that FGTH took their name from a poster (perhaps a mvie poster) which hung in their rehearsal room. If this is true, this should be "easy" to confirm...we just to find that poster and have a look if Sinatra or Vaughan is pictured on there... --Klaws 11:04, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

If you listen to "One September Monday" you get the definitive version of the group's name - it was a poster. And it was Sinatra. DaveG12345 03:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC) I seem to recall that it was "Frankie says...", not "Frankie say..." on the t-shirts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piant1963 (talkcontribs) 15:23, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

The genuine T-shirts said "Frankie Say", the fakes had the (grammatically incorrect) "Says". Nelson58 (talk) 01:03, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Intro and Formation sections[edit]

I tried to tidy up the intro and "formation" section - the article as a whole seems flabby and full of POV - e.g. the original convoluted explanation about Frankie Vaughan, who-taught-who guitar - some of this stuff is so trivial it's hardly worth mentioning except in a footer at the end called "Trivia". I think this is probably why the article was never "featured" - the sections on the individual singles, etc., still require similar tightening. Still too much POV, too much inconsequential or unstantiated trivia. DaveG12345 09:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Frankie are performing during 2005. (No, not "Davey Johnsons" version!)

BBC ban[edit]

Quoth the article: "the BBC decided to ban the record from all its TV and radio outlets." I'm sure this wasn't the case, and that they continued to appear on Top of the Pops - Steve Wright has even made reference to this when the song has been shown on TOTP2 at least once, commenting that unlike the rest of the BBC, "we were big enough, we could take it". Angmering 11:21, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

The much-repeated clip of FGTH doing "Relax" on TOTP actually comes from the week before the ban (as evidenced by the fact that the studio has been specially decorated for the show's 20th anniversary, which was that week.) --Bonalaw 10:38, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Indeed. They were fortunate to get on TOTP that week - it was a new entry at No.35 and they got quite a high billing and a lucky break, much like Wham! did about 18 months earlier. Must have been a tough week for getting artists to appear live. But there's no doubt that the BBC did not feature Relax at all between Mike Read's moment of glory and the TOTP Christmas special. Bentley Banana 20:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


Horn very cleverly marshalled the two aparently irreconcilable areas of musical taste in the group - Holly and rutherford's fondness for Hi-NRG and The Lads' admiration for the then-deeply unfashionable Pink Floyd. The mix made them irresistable to a vast range of British youth (It is notable that they were the first major pop act for about ten years not to have a "tribal" following), while it also accounts for their relative failure in the US, where their genre-hopping confused radio programmers.

Ryan Molloy[edit]

As I did in the German edition, I removed Molloy for the reason that that had nothing to fo with FGTH anymore. It was an anniversary event for Trevor Horn 25 years later -- it's nice extra info but he shouldn't be listed as regular band member. --Blane 21:16, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Computer game[edit]

Just some trivia: Frankie Goes to Hollywood was also a computer game, on the commodore C64. It was quite good... roan (The game also appeared on the ZX Spectrum and Amstrad CPC. The music was rather better on the C64)

I added the game article to Wikipedia. Felsir 11:54, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Hard Candy[edit]

anybody know how the Counting Crows song "Up All Night (Frankie Miller goes to Hollywood)" might relate to this?


I was under the impression that the offending lyric was when you want to suck it, chew it; it's about oral sex. I would provide a source - but I'm at work, and I would probably get in trouble. Lupine Proletariat 14:11, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunatley, you have fallen under the spell of a misheard lyric. The lyrics directly from the official FGTH website [1] state the chorus as -

"Relax don't do it / When you want to go to it / Relax don't do it / When you want to come // Relax don't do it / When you want to sock to it / Relax don't do it / When you want to come"

I still insist the song is about orgasms, but not everyone agrees, so I will drop that issue. Pixiestix 13:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Default Band Infobox Listing Original Members As Past Members[edit]

I removed this thing - the default Wikipedia band infobox is basically bland and hopeless for past bands IMO, but besides that, the implementation included a photo of the 1984 line-up whilst listing Johnson and Nash as "past members".

I know FG2H is trying to make a name for itself, and good luck to them all - but let's please not re-write history and have Holly Johnson and Brian Nash accorded the same status as (effectively) Pete Best or Wally Nightingale.

The new line-up hasn't made a name for itself yet - and so it deserves a footnote in the main article at this stage - no way should any "infobox" be listing johnny-come-lately members as a kick-off to the article, and no way should the original members be relegated to subsidiary importance in such a shoddy and disrespectful "past members" way.

Discussion welcomed but, IMO, come such a time that the "current" line-up has at least matched the original line-up's musical achievements, then we can start to talk about infoboxes bearing their name front-and-centre, eh? :-) --DaveG12345 21:49, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

NME cover[edit]

FGTH were, I think, one of the select group of artists to have featured on the front cover of the NME before they had a record contract. Am I right?

Two Tribes video banned on British TV?[edit]

I distinctly remember seeing the video on TV at the time. I don't think it was "not shown", though perhaps it wasn't shown on some TV shows or until after the 'watershed'. Can someone verify this please, and add a citation in the relevant place? -- Mal 19:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

On reflection, I think the full version wasn't shown, and perhaps parts of it were 'looped' so as to avoid showing the more 'violent' parts of the original cut. -- Mal 19:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Right and wrong. The Two Tribes video wasn't shown by the BBC, but it was shown by Channel 4 (who premiered the full-length version at about 1am one night in April 1984).

Special Concerts and other mindless trivia[edit]

FGTH were at "Rock around the Dock", a special concert as part of the renovation of the Liverpool docklands area. They did "Rage Hard" and "Warriors of the Wasteland". There is some measure of dispute over whether they were genuinely playing live, however. (If anyone has more info, that would be great.) I don't know if this was their only special, but it seems unlikely.

On a different node, FGTH was a major part of the musical revival in Britain, and Britain was kicking into high gear on revival in general. (The Liverpool Docks project, plus an effort to revive inner cities by turning scrubland into extensive international gardens were all during the same years.) It would be interesting to know how the attitudes of the time shaped FGTH and vice versa. (The music reflects the times, but the times also reflect the music. The relationship is rarely one-sided.)

Not performing during 1984?[edit]

"This rumour eventually gelled into the general accusation that "Frankie cannot play", since the group were unavailable for touring duties during the whole of 1984."

Not true. The same weekend that the first album was released (ie the last of October), FGTH flew to America for their first US tour. I don't know how many dates they played, but they were sure as hell live when they played "Born to Run" on Saturday Night Live. It is, however, true that Frankie's public performances during their summer-1984 peak consisted entirely of miming to "Relax" and "Two Tribes" on various European pop programmes.

Power of Love[edit]

I have removed "the seasonal Power of Love" as PoL is not a Christmas record. It happened to come out at Christmas and be FGTH's shot at the Christmas number one, and had a comically ornate nativity video with this in mind, but to lump it in with "I Believe in Father Christmas", Slade, Wizzard et al is just misleading.


There is also a game (for C64) called Fanky Goes to Hollywood. I think this topic needs disambiguation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 05:40, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality of "Relax"[edit]

I think that this part of the article needs further editing in order to meet the standards of neutrality: '...produced similarly minimalistic black-on-white shirts depicting positive slogans such as "Choose Life"...'

Let me know what you think. VegKilla (talk) 03:15, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree - and the claim that Hamnett designed the shirts is nonsense. So I removed that claim, and the POV tag. :-) --DaveG12345 (talk) 14:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Relax not banned by the BBC[edit]

Relax was not banned by the BBC. Mike Read refuse to play it on his slot but it remained in the A list so got palyed in a diferent slot. 12:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

According to Mike Read he did not refuse to play it but dropped it for lack of time: and his inteviewx in the BBC documentary Britain's Most Dangerous Songs.PhilomenaO'M (talk) 00:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


I cut the following uncited material from the article:

Adding to the controversy surrounding "Relax", rumours began to circulate after its chart success that the single had actually been recorded by session musicians. This rumour eventually gelled into the general accusation that "Frankie cannot play", since the group did not tour to promote either of their hit singles, and there was only a very brief series of UK dates in December 1984. Some time later, producer Trevor Horn admitted that in fact he had recorded a 'demo' version of "Relax" with FGTH and The Blockheads, the backing group for Ian Dury. He had then cut a second version with FGTH alone, but was unhappy with the result of both sessions, and had finally taken the tapes away to work on. Horn allegedly spent five more weeks augmenting the track with extensive overdubs by session musicians, incorporating previously recorded bass hooks by the Blockheads' Norman Watt-Roy and a bass pulse sampled on a Fairlight CMI two years earlier at Battery Studios by session bassist Mark 'Thumbs' Cunningham.[citation needed] Having unilaterally spent such extensive time and money on one single, Horn would later assert that "Relax" represented a massive gamble for himself and his new record label, ZTT, and that its failure could well have bankrupted him. By the time it was completed, it had cost a reported £70,000 in studio time alone, with the video clip costing an additional £15,000. The question of studio time, costs and who should ultimately pay for them would become a key question for FGTH (and other signed ZTT groups such as Propaganda) beyond 1984.

It all seems very detailed, and I'm sure at least some of it is true, but there are no citations, and it does not seem fitting material for a general article about the group. With reliable citations, it may have a place in the "Relax" article itself, but not here. --DaveG12345 (talk) 00:06, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Forbidden Hollywood[edit]

Given that the "new line-up" of FGTH has adopted the alternative name "Forbidden Hollywood", wouldn't it make more sense to classify this as a separate but connected band, and then restore FGTH to its original line-up, etc.? Given this name change plus the lack of any discernible activity by the band, it seems daft to describe FGTH as if it were an extant band, and ridiculous to describe Holly Johnson and Brian Nash as "former members". I note that DaveG12345 has raised this before, but it didn't seem to attract any further comment. Cheers, --PLUMBAGO 08:23, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

I guess you mean the template at the bottom of the page should change? I agree, it should match the infobox up at top-right of the article - which could itself arguably use a little bit of work. For non-extant bands whose line-up didn't change during their principal recording career (which I'd say applies to FGTH), I believe the infobox as used on The Beatles represents general consensus - i.e., "Members" should be Johnson, Rutherford, Gill, M. O'Toole and Nash, "Former Members" should be everybody else, as long as they were involved for more than 5 minutes of course... ;-) --DaveG12345 (talk) 19:44, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Another example to consider is that of Pink Floyd (showing my age there). They split up in the early 1980s but 3/4 of the band (though not its prime mover, Roger Waters) reformed and recorded a number of albums (i.e. they are in a completely different league to the reboot of FGTH). The Pink Floyd infobox lists the original line-up (plus additions/deletions) as a single unified list (though one early member is consigned to a separate line). Anyway, I'll have a go at reformatting the current infobox. Among other things, if this new band is notable (beyond its relationship to FGTH), it should really have its own article. At the moment, the Forbidden Hollywood article is about something completely unrelated.
On an unrelated note, some of the text in the current article is rather POV. Clearly written by an over-excited fan. I'll see about toning some of this down too. Cheers, --PLUMBAGO 07:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

What happened to pop culture references?[edit]

This article used to have a heading for FGTH references in pop culture - why has that been removed? (talk) 17:38, 1 May 2010 (UTC) Sean Duross 05/01/10


Sorry, but in the first line there, "extremely", appears to be subjective. I don't disagree that I personally thought they were great, but to just come out with "They were extremely popular...", assumes too much by the author. I wouldn't at all disagree with a statement such as "They were popular..." or "They were a popular band of the 1980's..."; but, as it stands, it seems to be telling everyone that "Hey, they were extremely popular cos I say so!" (Sorry to labour the point.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piant1963 (talkcontribs) 15:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Hmm reading through there are lots of subjective comments and opinions for example under "Power of Love"; "Only one week at the top THIS TIME."

Under "Welcome to the Pleasuredome" - "Cockily", "Embarrassingly", "The Snipers...".

In fact, the more I read through, the less it appears to be an encyclopedia entry than more like a "My personal opinion on what I remember about..."

I would suggest someone with, perhaps, a more objective POV rewrite the entire article. There is a lot of information there, but it's all mixed in with too much opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piant1963 (talkcontribs) 15:57, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry again, apparently I have to add ```` (4 tildes, though I'm not entirely sure why). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Piant1963 (talkcontribs) 16:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

"Exteremly popular" isn't too POV in this case, at the time, "Relax" was the fifth-best-selling single of all time, and the best-selling debut of any artist in British history (excluding Band Aid) and it had one of the longest chart runs in history. If that isn't "exteremly popular", what is? Although I'd agree "extremely" shouldn't be used anway. Nelson58 (talk) 00:52, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
They were pretty much a two-hit wonder, at least outside of England, and the half-hearted impression of their enjoying solid success was mostly a part of Paul Morley's MainMan-style marketing antics (and MTV being hungry for their videos). The album may have shipped gold in terms of record stores ordering it in large quantities but in most places it didn't actually sell over the counter, and reviews of WTTPD at the time were sceptical or disparaging to say the least, they were seen as ignorant posers. Most people who had bought the first two singles wanted nothing to do with the album, and many people assumed (rightly?) that the band couldn't really play. When their second album arrived two years later the hype around the act had effectively gone stone cold. (talk) 06:29, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Brian De Palma?[edit]

The original video directed by Bernard Rose depicted a gay S&M den (filmed in the unused East London theatre Wilton's Music Hall), which was promptly banned by both the BBC and MTV, resulting in the production of a substitute video directed by filmmaker Brian De Palma. I remember the "laser beam" video released to replace the Bernard Rose video. I don't remember any Body Double scenes being shown on TV as a promo for the song. Nelson58 (talk) 00:54, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


A Zoolander reference may help expand the article. I'm sure it could be handled in one or two sentences. OlYellerTalktome 15:41, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

FGTH "Was" or "Were"[edit]

I've change this to "was", even though a comment in the text claims "were" is correct UK grammar. I disagree. The band is singular, even though it is made up for several individuals. You would say "The band is great..." and "The band's are great...". Even as a collective noun, the singular is preferred.[2] --Iantresman (talk) 20:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Rescinded. --Iantresman (talk) 20:11, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
See Formal and notional agreement in UK grammar. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:19, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Why exactly should proper UK grammar control here? So what if the article is about a British band, the rules of grammar should be consistent across all articles that are written in English. Since Wikipedia is an American website it makes far more sense that American grammar rules should control. Afterall I don't see British spelling rules controling elsewhere, so why should British grammar rules control? I changed it back to was because that is correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
UK grammar controls because the article is about a UK band. Please read Manual of Style here and here on plurals. It was written specifically for cases like this. Your change is not in line with the manual of style, so I have reverted it. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 18:51, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Dear Escape Orbit, I hope you are well. I think you are force-fitting your opinions into the relevant section of the Manual of Style, which actually does not support your position in this particular case, and I therefore understand why other editors have considered your revisions to be pedantic. Still, I don't want an edit war so I will merely wish you well and let you interpret the Manual as you wish (differently to me, for one). After all, we are both just trying to do our best. All good wishes, George Custer's Sabre (talk) 19:07, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
The Manual of Style is merely reflecting UK grammar, so I don't see it as a matter of "opinion". FGTH were a band. The group was fronted by Holly Johnson. This is Formal and notional agreement in UK grammar in action. And the IP editor I reverted was arguing "American site therefore American grammar", which WP:ENGVAR specifically states is not a part of the MOS. So I don't follow who is finding what pedantic. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 19:41, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I agree: you don't follow. Have a nice day Sir or Ma'am. Regards George Custer's Sabre (talk) 19:56, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
We are in agreement. If it is your intention to leave others puzzled, then you have been successful. --Escape Orbit (Talk) 20:11, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
  • "Others"? Just one it seems, and that was not my intention. It's now time to move on, but thanks for bothering to reply. Best wishes.George Custer's Sabre (talk) 20:27, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, but was is simply correct, no matter where you were born or what continent you live on. The singular is correct even in French, because there is one band. This is not a political issue or a country-of-origin issue. Incidentally, I have no particular attachment to FGTH, nor am I from either the U.S. or the UK. I"m simply a wikifairy who corrects grammar.Tedd (talk) 01:11, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Then with respect, please don't "correct" any British English grammar, thanks. "FGTH were..." is correct. "FGTH was..." is incorrect. Want a clue? Take a look at one of their (official) T-shirts - it's "Frankie Say..." (plural form), not "Frankie Says..." (singular form). Back in the day, it always said "Frankie Says" on the illiterate bootleg shirts. --DaveG12345 (talk) 11:20, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

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