Talk:Franz Joseph I of Austria

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First?[edit]

Why did he carry the title Franz Josef the First, when there was no future emperor of the same name? Are you sure this is correct? Valetude (talk) 08:35, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

In short; a monarch can give themselves any number they like; it doesn't neccesarily follow that 'there have been x number of monarchs with this name, therefore this monarch should have this number', because this is part of the royal prerogative. Yes, it usually follows the convention that 'if there have been x number of monarchs, you have that number after your name', but sometimes monarchs go against this convention, often for political or historical considerations.

For example, there has only ever been one monarch of Australia called 'Elizabeth'; yet the current Queen of Australia is called 'Elizabeth II', the current King of Sweden is Carl XVI Gustaf, despite the fact there have only been nine Kings of Sweden called Carl, the first King of Italy was called Vittorio Emmanuele II; despite being the first King of Italy of this name, the first (and only) Emperor of Germany called Friedrich was Friedrich III, and so on.

To wit: if Franz Joseph I decided he the Franz Joseph I, then he was, just as much as if he had decided (for whatever reason) that he wanted to be called Franz Joseph II or Franz Joseph III.JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 11:10, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

There is a wikipedia article on regnal numbers; "the first" is sometimes but not always used by the first person to have that name. I notice mention (above, regarding Australia) of Elizabeth II -- that is using the regnal number of the BRITISH queen; apparently, British domains did not include Australia during the time of the 1st Queen Elizabeth (who was retroactively given the "I" in 1952). As for Franz Joseph of Austria, sometimes I see the "I" and sometimes I do not. Because the Austrian empire was broken up at end of what we now call World War I, there wasn't much chance for another Franz Joseph to become ruler.

Third longest-reigning monarchs[edit]

His 68-year reign is the third-longest in the recorded history of Europe (after those of Louis XIV of France and Johann II, Prince of Liechtenstein).[25]

This is wrong now because of recent changes to List of longest-reigning monarchs which counts minor noble/princelings within the Holy Roman Empire making Bernard VII, Lord of Lippe the longest reigning European monarch now. --The Emperor's New Spy (talk) 03:16, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

'Mistress' debunked[edit]

In 1885 Franz Joseph met Katharina Schratt, a leading actress of the Vienna stage, and she became his mistress.

I don't believe it's ever been established that they had a physically intimate relationship. Frederic Morton, in A Nervous Splendor: Vienna, 1888-1889 (Penguin, 1980), and Thunder at Twilight: Vienna 1913/1914 (Scribner's, 1989), asserts the relationship remained platonic. On page 85 of the latter, he writes: "...Franz Joseph and Frau Schratt continued to be lovers in everything but raw fact. They never met between the sheets."

Our entry on Katharina Schratt describes her as a "confidante" of Franz Joseph. German Wiki's article on her refers only to their "friendship" (die Freundschaft zwischen Katharina Schratt und Kaiser Franz Joseph).

I have made the appropriate changes to the text here and at Katharina Schratt. Sca (talk) 21:46, 12 August 2014 (UTC)


Requested move 09 November 2014[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 00:18, 16 November 2014 (UTC)


Franz Joseph I of AustriaFranz Joseph – He was not only the ruler of Austria. I should think his rule of Austria-Hungary is more significant than his rule prior to 1867. The proposed name is already a redirect here. I dropped the numeral because there is no Franz Joseph II, but I'd have no problem keeping it. Srnec (talk) 22:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Survey[edit]

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.
  • Oppose. The name of the article is fine as it is. Calling it merely "Franz Joseph" it's definitely odd. Are we going to repeat the dumb Queen Victoria? Charles V, Holy Roman Emperor was just as known as Carlos I of Spain, are we going to change that as well? Monarchs' articles should have the domain designation on their titles. Either way, the Austrian emperors' domains were generally called "Austria" for simplicity sake from that time to the present day. What you should be worried is to improve the article and bring it to Featured Article level. --Lecen (talk) 23:18, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Charles I of England and Charles II of England were not just kings of England. Philip II of Spain and Philip III of Spain were not just kings of Spain. The current abberation with recent British monarchs is not something we need to make worse by spreading it. Egsan Bacon (talk) 03:30, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose, if anything, it should be moved to Francis Joseph I of Austria or Francis Joseph I of Austria and Hungary. GoodDay (talk) 17:57, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Support, please. Get rid of the ridiculous extensions of the names! Red Slash 22:37, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose because it is usual.--Yopie (talk) 22:47, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Oppose This is a borderline case, but pre-emptive disambiguation of monarchs is not to be abandoned lightly, even if they are the primary or only meaning, and I agree that we have gone too far with recent British monarchs. Although he is the best-known Franz Joseph, he is not quite a household name these days, and we also have Franz Joseph II of Liechtenstein, who reigned for 51 years and only died in 1989. PatGallacher (talk) 02:02, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
  • Comment Franz Joseph used to be a disambiguation page [1]. It was merged to Franz Joseph (disambiguaiton) in 2007 [2], so per WP:MAD the edit history needs to be kept around, so if this is moved, the destination's edit history from 2007 and older needs to be preserved, such as moving the page to a placeholder location (ie. Franz-Joseph (something with no significant edit history) or somesuch) -- 67.70.35.44 (talk) 06:17, 14 November 2014 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

I thought "of Austria" referred to his birthplace, not his domain? --173.174.98.73 (talk) 19:19, 14 November 2014 (UTC)


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

German Name[edit]

as you can see reading the German article, his German name was Franz Joseph, with ph, not f. --W-j-s (talk) 20:24, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Guessing game[edit]

Q: If I moved John, King of England to John I, King of England, how long would it be before someone reverted it?
A: Not long.
Q: Why?
A: Because there never was a John II, King of England?
Voice from on high: VERY GOOD!
Q: So, why do these articles exist? John II of France, John II of Portugal, John II Komnenos. Hint: Don't spend too long on this question.
A: I'm not absolutely sure, but please continue. I like this game!
Q: OK, why are all the following links red? NB Don't guess. Just search Wikipedia.

NB I'm sure dedicated fans of nomenclature will have thought about these redirects:

But the following are definitely and incontrovertibly red, and will remain so for a day or two.

A:                                                                                                                                                        Hmmm.

So, my darlings, here's the 64,000-dollar question:

Q: Why is there no article Franz Joseph II of Austria, and even if I wanted to create it, why would I not find a single Reliable Source™ referring to such a person?
A: Because there never was such a person, or anyone who styled themselves thus?
Voice from on high: VERY GOOD!

So..... Guess my proposal. Hint: click the Edit button. MinorProphet (talk) 06:40, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. It is neither amusing nor convincing. Surtsicna (talk) 09:39, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
And also just wrong. He used the numeral himself, as can be seen on this 1861 thaler: FRANZ JOSEPH I V[on] G[ottes] G[naden] KAISER V[on] OESTERREICH. Opera hat (talk) 00:48, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

I was hasty and wrong, and I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for my intemperate and disruptive behaviour. I hope it won't happen again. PS I just love being corrected. MinorProphet (talk) 01:58, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

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