Talk:Fukushima Daiichi nuclear disaster

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There are discussions related to the nuclear accident both here and at Talk:Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant


Translation request for picture banner text with invitement of japanese from fukushima area[edit]

Does the following picture really show an anti atom rally inside fukushima desaster article ? Request for translation of japanese banners inside the picture with no anti atom signs just children balloons at Meiji Shrine side. Maybe correcting yourself inside eWP or answering here.

Anti-nuclear power plant rally on 19 September 2011 at the Meiji Shrine complex in Tokyo.

Natural seawall removal[edit]

I've just come across this 2011 WSJ article about Daiichi's 35m natural seawall being reduced to 10m. The comparison with nearby plants that survived the tsunami is telling and should not just be included, but given a certain prominence, I think:

The destruction of that natural tsunami barrier at the Fukushima Daiichi site contrasts starkly with later decisions in the 1970s to build the nearby Fukushima Daini and Onagawa nuclear-power plants at higher elevations. Despite being rocked by the massive March earthquake, both of those plants' reactors achieved "cold shutdowns" shortly after the tsunami struck and thereby avoided the damage wreaked upon the crippled Daiichi plant.
Both of those plants, located along the same coastline as Daiichi, survived primarily because they were built at higher elevations, on top of floodwalls that came with the landscape. As a result, the tsunami didn't result in an extended loss of power at those plants, allowing their operators to quickly cool active reactors and avoid meltdowns.[1]

I don't want to start editing this topic, so I hope an interested editor picks this up. Thanks. Podiaebba (talk)

Alternatives[edit]

Editor Nuve307 has added a paragraph about the alternative use of Thorium reactors, which I have removed. Specific reasons are:

- The use of Thorium reactors is only one of a plethora of possible mitigations for the disaster, ranging from higher seawalls to all sorts of Gen III+ and Gen IV designs,which are all possibilities. If one is mentioned than all should be, which are not germane to the article.
- While I like Sorenson and his ideas, he has not addressed thorium reactors as a panacea for any particular disaster, namely the one the article addresses. Neither does the article change. Moreover, if LFTR is a panacea, it is a panacea for far more than just Fukushima Daiichi.
- The change is not factual, but rather prescriptive. Not appropriate for an encyclopedia article.
- Thorium reactors are addressed in specific articles on Molten salt reactor, Liquid fluoride thorium reactor, Nuclear reactor safety systems, a probably a dozen more articles.

Proposed Rollback[edit]

As stated above, I see good cause to roll back over 10 edits to the article by Graemem56. Some of the edits include sourced material that the editor in question objects to as a proponent of nuclear energy. If there is no objection by the community, I will proceed in the near future. Thanks. Jusdafax 02:40, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Graemem56's comments suggest the cited material did not support the text that was removed. Perhaps we should discuss how the cites do or don't support the text before making a sweeping change. NRC OPA (talk) 14:06, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
  • First things first. I see from looking at your user page that your Wikipedia account is apparently operated by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, which frankly, takes me aback. To quote your page "The Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Office of Public Affairs has established this account to provide reliably sourced information on articles referencing the NRC. The Office of Public Affairs welcomes questions regarding the agency and the activities it regulates." So U.S. taxpayer dollars are paying for you to edit this article, which makes you a paid editor.
Assuming you are indeed a representative of the U.S. Government, and can be properly identified as such, my first question to you is, the article we are editing is of course regarding a nuclear disaster in Japan. I fail to see that this squares up with your mission statement. Aren't you in fact operating outside of your self-defined jurisdiction? Jusdafax 06:08, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
An informed but neutral party, without offering any edits, simply suggests a conversation regarding a proposed sweeping change. How is this not a good faith effort to improve the article? The U.S. NRC provide technical support to Japanese and U.S. Embassy officials during the accident, and the agency continues to work with the Japanese regulator today as part of a U.S. multi-agency effort supporting Japan's ongoing cleanup operation. As the Office of Public Affairs has properly and clearly declared its actions, what is the source of your concern?NRC OPA (talk) 13:03, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

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I have just come to this page again to check how it's going. I edited the highly out of radioactive-contaminated water, because the article doesn't say highly, and it's unlikely to be. I will try to quantify this some more. I've just read some of the comments about me above.

I do not work for the US government, I live and work in Australia and I am a medical practitioner. I am very concerned about climate change and I have little doubts that James Hansen is correct in saying that we NEED nuclear power as the only credible alternative to fossil-fuels. My opinion of the anti-nuclear movement is thus: It is a denialist movement that behave in exactly the way that climate-change deniers, holocaust deniers, creationists, flat-earthers, moon-landing was a hoax, etc behave. I think the hallmark of the denialist movement is the Conspiracy Theory although others like Cherry-Picking and Fake Experts are well known. And as soon as Jusdafax reads my edits he invokes a Conspiracy Theory. The flat-earthers and moon-landing-hoax people are just amusing, the creationists are a serious threat to science education in the US but not elsewhere. But some of these movements are downright dangerous, the anti-vaxers could kill millions and the Vitamin C cures cancer people kill too. But at the moment, I find the climate-change deniers and anti-nuclear groups to be the most dangerous and they may constitute the left-right hook to a serious response to climate change. I am totally amazed at the antinuclear people criticizing the conspiracy claims made against the IPCC reports and process and then make exactly the same conspiracy claims about the Chernobyl Forum reports and process.Graemem56 (talk) 11:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC) Thus, I'm very passionate about wiping out the errors and putting in some balance. A couple of these articles are simply diatribes written by an anti-nuclear writer, and awfully unbalanced. Almost all of the links are to anti-nuclear websites and no attempt has been made to find the underlying source. There was a line that 40% of children in a Fukushima study had thyroid abnormalities; this was a disgraceful failure to check facts. 40% of children had nodules or cysts of a certain size and this is normal. I found the original article and corrected it. Some of the other stuff was political with claims that the nuclear industry was about to go out of business. It may have been better to edit it out but I thought I'd simply try to balance it by offering an alternate viewpoint and referenced links to proposed new reactors. When the article described the energiewende as highly successful, I took the highly successful out, I think controversial might be better.

I first became interested in this when someone on a blog insisted that the Ukrainian Health Minister claimed in 2006 that more than 2.4 million Ukrainians, including 428,000 children, suffer from health problems related to the reactor incident. I was highly skeptical and I could find no link. I edited it out and someone else edited it back in again. Eventually I found the source of the claim, which was a regional government in Ukraine, and they were NOT talking about health problems. [4][5]Graemem56 (talk) 11:31, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

PS I do not think this should be called a disaster, surely incident is better. The disaster was the earthquake and tsunami — Preceding unsigned comment added by Graemem56 (talkcontribs) 11:44, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

  • I disagree with much if not all of your reasoning. The article has been stable for some time. Changing the name is simply a public relations ploy. Jusdafax 07:16, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

Disaster, in most people's minds, implies a great loss of life, in which case this was not a disaster. The title of the page implies something that is not at all true. It strikes me as yellow journalism.

No, disaster implies a major accident. Given the enormous disruption to the life of thousands, the risks involved and the cost of stabilising the plant, it is the appropriate word. "Incident" is nowhere near strong enough. Mezigue (talk) 08:49, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Becquerels per hour[edit]

There is a very great deal of potentially misleading reporting on the subject of these meltdowns, of which I consider the enormous numbers associated with becquerels to be the worst. The radioactivity of one gram of radium, according to Wikipedia's entry "Curie" as a unit, is

    37 GBq = 37,000,000,000 atoms decaying per second
I trust your problem isn't just that the Bq is such a small unit. It is the SI standard derived unit for the rate of radiation (and thus a proxy for a quantity of radiative material). SkoreKeep (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

The Daiichi disaster article says "In the first half of September 2011 TEPCO estimated the radioactivity release at some 200 MBq (megabecquerels, 5.4 millicuries) per hour." , which is nonsense.
For example, one metre per second is a speed, 3600 metres per second per hour is an acceleration of one metre per second per second. Becquerels express the rate of decay of a quantity of radioactive matter, in atomic nuclear events per second. So a rate of 200 MBq per hour would be one 3600th of 200,000,000 nuclear decays per second per second, which is a nonsense unit.

No, it's not nonsense. As I said above, Bq is a proxy for a quantity of radiative material, so Bq/hr is a rate of production (or release, or what-have-you) of radiative material capable of the given radiation rate. SkoreKeep (talk) 16:40, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

The error is slightly less glaring under "Contamination" where
"Between 21 March and mid-July around 2.7 × 10^16 Bq of caesium-137 (about 8.4 kg) entered the ocean, about 82 percent having flowed into the sea before 8 April"
Given that the half-life of Cs-137 is just over 30 years, presumably the radioactivity per kg of the 8.4 kg total would have been fairly constant over that four month period. But why not simply say that
"Between 21 March and mid-July about 8.4 kg of caesium-137 entered the ocean, about 82 percent having flowed into the sea before 8 April"
In another article, I read the same sort of poor specification of units, reported about neptunium 239, which has a half life less than the period over which the rate in becquerels was reported. It must have been four times as high at the beginning as at the end. Neptunium production ceases when the reactor is shut down. DaveyHume (talk) 00:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Other sources that cite the same Japanese article (JAIF-Earthquake Report 211) use the same units. While I do not read Japanese, I can say that the other articles (e.g., http://www.srrp.ro/index.php?id=85&type=news) refer explicitly to the rate of radioactive substance or material being released, not to the radiation rate. So the amount of radiation being produced by some quantity of gas is measured in becquerels, but if that amount of gas is being produced/released every hour, then you get becquerels per hour. In other words, if you know the material produces some amount, X, of becquerels per gram, and that you are producing Y grams of material per hour, then you are producing X*Y becquerels per hour. Since we care about the amount radiation produced by the material being released (rather than the mass or volume of material), this is about the only practical way of reporting the numbers. Elriana (talk) 16:10, 14 July 2015 (UTC)