Talk:Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid

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Date Rape drug[edit]

I believe there are no known cases of date rape involving GHB. It was merely a convenient, albeit pointless excuse for making a relatively safe and beneficial drug illegal. Pointless because GHB is trivial to make and someone who intends to engage in date rape is hardly likely to care whether the drug is legal.

Here is a reference for cases of date rape involving GHB. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.188.120.220 (talk) 23:42, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Moreover I have corrected a fair amount of the article, toned down some of the alarmist content(for example the impression that GHB can kill when taken by itself, it cannot.), and tried to fully represent scientific studies about this substance. As you can see, it is all referenced where needed.

As far as 'date rape' substances are concerned, the oldest used substance is alcohol, but I havent seen any bans for that recently, moreover, alcohol produces toxic byproducts, GHB does not. KCM

Every chemical is capable of killing you, even water- look up water intoxication. It IS possible to lethally overdose on GHB alone. The LD50 is around 1000-2000 mg/kg which is a lot but keep in mind this is the level where 50% of the treated group is dead and some of them may have died at lower doses. GBL and 1,4 BD seem to be more toxic and easier to overdose on. Renwick 13:58, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

GHB was the drug used in the diane brimble case. 220.235.102.165 05:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Reference for diane brimble case and GHB. [2] Ansell 09:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that even water can cause death. But GHB is 'practically' impossible to overdose on. The LD50 approaches several Kilos of the stuff. I would like to see someone who would be willing to swallow tablespoon after tablespoon of a salty gritty compound. As far as Diane Brimble, nowhere in the press article is their any proof she died from it. More likely, the GHB she took was some homemade stuff. The quality control of homebrew GHB leaves alot to be desired, and no doubt contains impurities. Again, GHB does not produce toxic byproducts (Vickers, 1969; Laborit, 1972) I suspect mortality over swallowing Kilos of the stuff results from the salty saturation aspects of the compound. (K)(74.210.58.185 (talk) 21:36, 18 February 2008 (UTC))

This section is plain old piss-poor - I removed a rubbish quote - personal experiences are not acceptable references. I left the "citation" in in reference to the salty character of the substance, but a better one is necessary. Also added balancing statements, although this whole section should be revamped. It is not generally relevant and seems to be written by GHB proponents to disagree with legal rulings. Regardless of the use of GHB as a date-rape drug, it has a real potential for this purpose, and has been immplicated in many cases. The taste is secondary, and stating that it is too noticeable implies that the victim should notice and is therefore culpable. Halogenated 05:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The revision removed the central point I had added regarding the onus to recognise the taste - this is very important in the context of this section of the article, as it implies the victim is to blame by not recognising something amiss. This is entirely where a legal defence strategy could and likely has been hinged. It could use a source, as could much of the info here, but it is not a NPOV issue. If we're going to bother to include discussion of the taste being an issue at all, under which is the implication that it is laregly noticeable, this needs to be addressed.

Halogenated 16:35, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

"Regardless, the taste of GHB is largely irrelevant to its use as a date rape drug, as it implies there is an onus on the victim to notice it." would be considered opinion rather than fact and thus not appropriate for Wikipedia- less so than the crap that pro-GHB editors have put in before, but still not appropriate. Really, it's just irrelevant, as it's perfectly obvious that rapists are not less culpable in rape because the victim 'should have noticed' something. I highly doubt that a legal defence has been 'hinged' on this point. John Nevard 03:08, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I suppose you are right that it is not a "fact", but it is more a common sense observation than an opinion (there is definitely a difference, for what it's worth). Unfortunately, many of the people pro-GHB people contributing to this section of the article seem to lack that bit of common sense. I would agree that it seems pretty obvious, but suprisingly that doesn't seem to occur to many people, including some police officers and judges. More than a few rapists have escaped conviction based on what a woman was wearing or her past sexual history - seems to me that that does not make the rapist less culpable either, but the law is not exactly a model of true justice. That being said, I will not object if you wish to remove that line. I would suggest though the entire premise of taste be removed altogether then, as it too is merely an opinion.

Removing the taste issue altogether is not really fair. The taste of GHB dissolved in water is quite apparent. However, I am not saying that a victim should be blamed for 'not noticing' the taste, thats a horrid thing to say. But the prevalence of it's use in spiking is WAY overstated. One cant just drop GHB powder into someones beer and get away with it, it's immediatley noticable. Only the most sugary and highly flavoured cocktails or drinks could hide the saltiness. However, can we please just stick to the point that YES, GHB powder dissolved in water (or watery beverages) is like drinking VERY salty sea water? It isnt opinion, it's fact. One can't say that stating seawater is salty is an opinion, it is reality, and GHB in dissolved form is quite, quite salty. Putting aside all the 'date rape' hysteria, since GHB, if one wanted to, be added to someones alcoholic drink, it doesnt make it any more a 'date rape' drug, than a gun is a 'human termination device'. People rape people, people kill people, not guns. We are throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. If we are to get pedantic about 'date rape' drugs, then GHB is a terrible choice to do that nefarious deed. Dissolved Valium, Mogadon, or one of the many barbituites are a far 'better' choice if one wanted to knock someone out. (K)(74.210.58.185 (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2008 (UTC))

Halogenated 03:39, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

So I think this section has been cleaned up pretty well. I think the neutrality dispute tag could probably be removed, unless someone has any objections. Anyone? Halogenated (talk) 18:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

The DATE RAPE DRUG text of this article says sources are unconfirmed: "Although unconfirmed sources say the above, it should be mentioned that the sodium form of GHB has a very strong salty taste and therefore will be tasted relatively easily. In addition, obtaining a correct dosage is difficult; at too high a dosage, the person will lose consciousness, which in a public place will probably lead to an emergency call." If "unconfirmed sources say the above" then the above cannot be used in Wikipedia which requires sources.Tomandzeke (talk) 02:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Merge discussion[edit]

Xyrem should be merged here per WP:MOSMED. --ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 08:17, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Merge [of Xyrem] with gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid would be the best approach I'd say seeing as the non-drug uses of GHB are fairly minimal. Meodipt (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2010 (UTC) copied here by ἀνυπόδητος (talk) 08:17, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree. I believe that these two articles should remain separate. Combining these two articles would cause confusion among readers and lead to nonproductive conflict between editors.User:WhoNeedsSleep —Preceding undated comment added 06:00, 27 September 2010 (UTC).

  • Support merge. They are both the same drug and should be on one page.--Literaturegeek | T@1k? 17:04, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Here are some of the reasons why I oppose merging these two articles. Sodium oxybate, the active ingredient in Xyrem, is a sodium salt of gamma- hydroxybutyrate. There are many prescription medicines on the market today that have naturally occurring substances as their active ingredient. Two examples that have been in the news recently are AndroGel and Fortesta which are both testosterone. Additionally, estrogen and progestin are both a man-made version of progesterone which are the active ingredients in most birth control pills. Zemplar is vitamin D. Penicillin is derived from Penicillium... These are a few examples off the top of my head. There are many more. Combining these two articles would not be consistent with how other prescription medicine articles are listed within Wikipedia today. The content within the Xyrem article is strictly based on a manufactured prescription medicine not a naturally occurring substance. The GHB article references Xyrem in a few places. If we are concerned that these articles are redundant the simple solution is to remove the few sentences regarding Xyrem from the GHB article and add a Dablink or a single sentence to direct readers to Xyrem. WhoNeedsSleep (talk) 02 October 2010 (UTC)

If they are the exact same compound, they should be merged. If and only if there is more than one major use of the compound, should it be split, but that is undesirable for maintainability and synchronization. Usually, drugs which are available in different salt or ester forms which are functionally identical should be subsumed under one article, with one representative chem/drug box (e.g. pancuronium bromide), but perhaps this is not the case for Xyrem, if the sodium salt is the established form by which this compound is administered. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 06:34, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

It is important to note that Xyrem and GHB are considered separate agents by the DEA and FDA under the Controlled Substances Act. Xyrem is a schedule III product and GHB is schedule I and is illegal.WhoNeedsSleep (talk) 02 October 2010 (UTC)

Seems a good enough reason for them to be separate, though one should never forget that Xyrem is the trivial sodium salt of the free acid. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 06:58, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Xyrem is not available in Australia[edit]

FYI - Xyrem is not currently available in Australia. Being narcoleptic I wish it was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.135.153 (talk) 22:56, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Capital H in title[edit]

Is there any reason why the article is Gamma-Hydroxybutyric acid as opposed to Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid? Looking at the references it doesn't appear that sources use a capital. SmartSE (talk) 12:45, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Gamma is not considered as a word, it's just the Greek letter γ written out. The first English letter of an article title is always capitalized unless there's a trademark reason not to do it (Wikipedia:Article titles) and the specific guideline for chemical articles clarifies that non-letter prefixes are not considered as the first "letter" for purposes of article-title capitalization (Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry)). The real name would be "γ-Hydroxybutyric acid" if starting actual article pages-names with Greek letters were not discouraged for various reasons. You actually can go to Gamma-hydroxybutyric acid and you'll be at the article as expected. DMacks (talk) 13:31, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Now schedule 1 in Canada[edit]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_Drugs_and_Substances_Act#Schedule_I It was reclassified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.168.127.82 (talk) 03:06, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

Interaction with Valproic acid - Logistics[edit]

Two quick things: I am not sure if my insertion of valproic acid (VPA) inhibition of GHB was put in the right section, I put it in "Endogenous Production." If you feel it should be moved, then go ahead.

Second, I am not sure if I cited correctly. The information I gathered was from textbook by Rene H. Levy entitled Antiepileptic drugs. If someone wants to clean that up I would be more than grateful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aglo123 (talkcontribs) 20:54, 5 December 2016 (UTC)