Talk:Garfield High School (Seattle, Washington)

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Cleanup: Specifics[edit]

Overall, this article's quality is subpar, and as a student of the school, I'd like to see the article improve. Some things which are painfully obvious to me are:

  • Introduction. Should be short and to the point. "James A. Garfield High School is a public high school in the Seattle School district. It is known for its outstanding music program and high degree of cultural diversity." Boom.
I disagree. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools WAvegetarian 05:28, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Sections. Have ONE clubs section, and have the club sections become subsections. See Wikipedia:Section.
Done WAvegetarian 01:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Copy-editing; e.g., the History section begins "It was founded...", but really should say something like "The school was founded...", or even "James A. Garfield High School was founded..."
Done WAvegetarian 01:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Source citation. Do not just add a link to the cited source; it should be documented as in Wikipedia:Cite_sources.
Done WAvegetarian 01:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

--Insaneinside 08:58, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Formatting. This article should be edited to follow the formatting of the WikiProject Schools, as mentioned above. WAvegetarian 01:33, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Academics. There should be a section titled academics where people will be awed by Garfield's prowess and enticed to send their children there. WAvegetarian 05:23, 4 October 2005 (UTC) read about the academic standards set by Garfield and how they compare to other schools in the area. WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 09:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps some more info on other sections of the athletics program? Surely basketball is not the only sport played. Harro5 09:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
If you read further on you will see that I have already addressed this concern, albeit in a separate thread. WAvegetarian 01:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
i added an academic section, not quite sure how to address ghs in comparison to other schools. what's the deal with inline citations vs. full citations? Mwhiz 04:19, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I prefer the <ref>citation</ref> style personally, but I haven't gotten around to changing this article around to it. I'll get to it this weekend. Using this format the article as linked footnote citations with autonumbering. It is very convenient because they don't distract the reader and allow for quick movement between text and citations, while at the same time allowing the citation to be imbedded (in the code) right with the factoid it goes to.—WAvegetarian(talk) 00:47, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Expansion of Noteworthiness[edit]

This article needs to be expanded to include the full scope of Garfield's noteworthiness. Current or former students and faculty make some of the best editors for school pages, but the following could be researched further by anyone.

  • Activities. There should be some mention of the award winning school newspaper, the [garfieldmessenger.com|Garfield Messenger]. Computers for the World and the Garfield Tech Academy deserve a mention, as does Garfield's dominance in Latin through the Washington/British Columbia Junior Classical League. The award winning Math Team also deserves a mention along with the Garfield Drama Program, particularly the award winning performance of Cabaret for the 2005 Spring Musical.
  • Athletics. There should be some mention of our other prominent, award winning sports, e.g. swimming, tennis, volleyball, and our more unusual sports, e.g. rugby and ultimate frisbee.

WAvegetarian 01:31, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Image replacement request[edit]

The image on this page, Image:JamesAGarfield HS.jpg, is claimed as fair use; however, it seems that anyone in Seattle who has a digital camera should be able to obtain an equivalent, free image. If any such person is watching this page, could they consider this? Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 20:05, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I agree that a fair use image seems ridiculous for this article, especially since the uploader is a current student of the school. However, the lovely grassy area in the foreground of the image is now occupied by a number of single-room portable classroom buildings. There isn't really a good angle to take a full building shot from at the present time. I have a B&W photograph I shot looking up at the front moulding on the outside of the building. It is at home in Seattle, while I'm at school in Ohio. I will leave a message on InsaneInside's talk page about having someone from photojournalism or yearbook upload a similar shot. WAvegetarian 20:29, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm a yearbook photographer, and carry my camera with me everywhere. I should have thought to take my own picture, and will very soon. Insaneinside 23:27, 3 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I think that a shot like this
    JamesAGarfield HS 2.jpg
    would be best. I have changed the current photo to this, but would like someone to take this angle without the exterior lights being on. WAvegetarian 04:56, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
    • The best angle would probably be from on top of the gym. That way it would be head on in terms of altitude, far enough back to avoid the fish-eye effect, and at a slight sideways angle to lend a third dimension. Any volunteers? There aren't motion detectors on the roof of the gym yet, at least I don't think there are. --WAvegetarian 05:05, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Famous Graduates[edit]

Garfield has a huge number of notable graduates, like Joe Staton, c/o '66, who played for a time with the Detroit Tigers. But I feel that given how many notable graduates we've had, the famous graduates section should be reserved for people who have made an impact on a national or international level. I feel that Leah, being part of a national TV craze, and Benaroya, providing a venue for a world class symphony qualify. When Adam Hesterberg graduates we could possibly add him as the national Mathcounts champion, even if he did achieve that while in 8th grade, and assuming he doesn't pull off something more spectacular in the next couple of years. Anyway, the reason that I think we should institute this notability test is two-fold: first, we don't want too many names or we will have to make it into list form; second, if all of the people listed have a major accomplishment, we can give them their own articles. I have wikilinked all of the grads names with the hope and intention that they will all have their own articles by the end of the calendar year. I have done some preliminary research and have found plenty of info on the web about all of them. Getting articles written for Acox [1] [2] and Tsutakawa [3] would be worthwhile as well. The links provided would alone be enough to write a short bio article on each of them, but getting an interview and input while both of them are still teaching would be great. We also might want to make a listing of famous teachers. We can count Bruce Lee as a former teacher of Chinese philosophy, see [4], not as a student as the Garfield Volleydogs' website seems to claim [5], see [6] WAvegetarian 04:41, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I would much prefer to see this section set out as an easy-to-read alphabetical list with brief descriptions of each alumnus. At present it is unappealing to read as one big paragraph. Harro5 09:42, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
    • I have made this into a list. It was easier to organize by reason for noteriety than by name. This organization also provides an immediate sense of what Garfield grads are known for. It could be alphabetized within categories.WAvegetarian 20:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
  • As the section is now in list form we can more readily include graduates who might not receive more than a stub page. If my prose is to go by the wayside, I'm prepared to have a longer and less concentrated list.WAvegetarian 20:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
  • whats the deal with James Kuo? first asian-american bioengineer? i don't mean to be disrespectful, but that doesn't sound terribly distinguished, and how are we defining "bioengineer"? Mwhiz 05:59, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
    • I didn't think so either, but do a google search.—WAvegetarian(talk) 18:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
      • Hm, i missed that when i googled him. good call. Mwhiz 19:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Garfield's History[edit]

I'm not sure what is going on at the school right now, but given that it is being torn down, it seems to me that it is more urgent than ever to record the history of the school. I know that Messenger staffers worked on a video, but it would be nice to have a written history of the school. This [7] is a good link for basic history. What I'm wishing existed is way beyond the scope of a Wikipedia article and isn't something that I would ask someone else to take on without getting some benefit more than the finished work, be it school credits or something else. Mainly, I'd like to see some sort of timeline for the ever changing buildings of the school. When was the lower gym added, the pool, the various portables and in what arrangement? When was the green house created? And what year was the first to "get it up" on the stack? Possibly a subsection on Garfield's political history: Black Panthers, student protests, Martin Luther King, Jr. (see [8]), et cetera. Someone could/should interview the security guard Michael Dixon about the Panthers. It would be truly amazing to find a student or faculty member who was there for one of King's lectures back in 1961. I will make an effort to work on writing up some of this history with internet research, as I am in Ohio for school. This article is sort of my senior project that I never got to present. We certainly have the history and, even though the Messenger is getting pushed around by budget constraints, the writing talent to get this school article to featured article status. (I realize that this statement assumes that all working on this article were already be associated with the school in some way before they started writing, but that's the way most school articles turn out.) Just remember to keep it factual and NPOV. WAvegetarian 05:06, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

We should also get some mention of Principal Frank Hanawalt, who was around for Jimi Hendrix, the MLK visit, and the desegregation of the schools. There's quite a bit of information available through Google.—WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 07:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Featured Article Status[edit]

By the end of the school year, this article could easily reach Featured Article Status. So far there has been only one school article to achieve this honor, see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools#Featured_articles. This article has red links, id est links to articles which don't exist. These are frowned upon in featured articles. It is my hope to eliminate all of them from Garfield's page by the end of the calendar year. Once those are fixed and more history, more athletics, and a creation of an Academics section is complete, we can add it to Wikipedia:WikiProject_Schools#Featured_article_candidates.WAvegetarian 05:21, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

  • I'd certainly like to see it get that status, as I'm a 1985 grad. I certainly credit any success I've had as a writer and game designer to my time editing the Messenger. Let me know how I can help.Mike Selinker 21:19, 10 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Hmm. Not sure I fit on anybody's list of "Famous graduates." I'm no Quincy Jones.--Mike Selinker 02:08, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
    • That's true, but you do have your own article and are a "notable wikipedian." I think that if it's going to be in list form, we should broaden the scope as I noted here. You have your own article, so why not be listed? --WAvegetarian 06:23, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Because it's tacky; if featured article status is the desired goal, then professional quality on top of good content is essential.

  • I certainly agree with that, Unnamed Contributor. At the very least, it's stopped me from editing the page. Let's take me off that list.--Mike Selinker 00:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Acox[edit]

Answering question of User:24.17.48.241: Clarence was directing the orchestra at GHS when I was there, in 1981-1985. He started at Garfield in 1971. --Mike Selinker 15:18, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

  • P.S. I think it's time to lose the cleanup tag. Not to say the article's done or anything, just that it's no longer in need of cleanup.--Mike Selinker 15:27, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Military recruiters at Garfield[edit]

I think the school's groundbreaking decision to ban military recruiters deserves to be on this page. Thoughts? (Details: here.)--Mike Selinker 04:43, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I think I was at that PTSA meeting. It isn't actually the school that decreed this, only the PTSA. Actually banning them would be illegal. According to Section 9528 of the No Child Left Behind Act, as long as the school receives federal money, which is does through its affiliation with the school district, it must allow military recruiters equal access to students as compared to colleges and universities. If we make a section for the PTSA we could include it there as an example of the organization being strong willed, principled and not always in step with the administration (left vague to include administrations at all levels). --WAvegetarian (talk) (email) (contribs) 06:07, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Recruiters are not banned from the school, but confined to a private room. This was a decision by the PTSA and I think it is noteworthy enough to be added in someway to the article.LastWarrior2010 (talk) 20:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC) [9] newspaper source for Garfield Recruitment LastWarrior2010 (talk) 01:45, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Garfield Wikipedians[edit]

So far I know of four active Wikipedians who go/went to Garfield: User:WAvegetarian, User:Mike Selinker, User:Michael_Snow, and User:Insaneinside. If you also went to Garfield, I would be interested to know. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL• 10:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, I did. And you happen to have known me, while I was there. ;) CAPS LOCK 20:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
    • You in fact were one of the reasons that I got actively involved. Our paths hadn't crossed on Wikipedia, though, so I assumed you were inactive. —WAvegetarianTALKCONTRIBSEMAIL 22:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
      • I'd been on a self-enforced break from Wikipedia for a while, I just came back yesterday, which is probably why we never made contact. CAPS LOCK 23:40, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
  • User:Krubo seems to have gone there as well. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 16:07, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm semi-active, coming spurts (just like love) but I consider myself a considerable contributor to wikipedia. PS im enrolled in Garfs currently and attended for my freshman and sophomore years. Running Start for junior and upcoming senior. --The reverend 09:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • 2004 graduate here, I've just started to become an active reader and editor, so I don't have any major edits under my belt yet. I'm currently working on a new article, which will definitely deserve a cross-link or maybe a subsection in the GHS page. --Rabid Lemur 08:26, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
  • i'm a current student (c/o 2008) Mwhiz 04:12, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I will graduate Garfield 2010. LastWarrior2010 (talk) 20:44, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Claim of bias in ordering of clubs and activities[edit]

I have ordered these by number of participants/contributors. If you have a different and objective ordering scheme, please propose it here before changing the order and format. I have no bias for Post 84 at the expense of other clubs or activities. The system currently in place seemed like the most logical one to me, which is why I used it. It happens that Post 84 is the largest high school student organization in not just the school but the entire state of Washington. That is why it was placed first. Drama has the second most participants, therefore it is placed second. No one other than someone from the IP address of 65.101.143.157 has voiced any concern over this ordering system. They are extremely biased against Post 84, which seems to be the motivation behind their wanting a change. I would like to suggest that this person write up a referenced section on the controversy of Post/Science Seminar's funding and alleged racist bias against ethnic minorities. I would like to see this article reach featured article status, which will not occur without references. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL•04:11, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

  • It seems like the best ordering is an objective one, and if there continues to be squabbling, I suggest alphabetical. (By the way, I don't remember being threatened with expulsion for painting the stack, but that's probably because I never got caught.)--Mike Selinker 06:07, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Didn't you get the memo? Every year, a letter is circulated warning students ahead of time that they would face expulsion for it. ;) CAPS LOCK 20:25, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
      • He's a bit older than us, Alex. It might not have been so heavily discouraged then. The inflation rate of personal injury and liability lawyers is staggering these days. ;)—WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 21:06, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
        • By the way, this discussion below about you worrying about the consequences of taking a pic from the roof of the gym is quite disheartening. Back in my day, we had guts. I'm just saying.--Mike Selinker 22:49, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
          • In our day the enforcer security guard is a former Black Panther. And people like User:Michael Snow went off and became lawyers. There are also increased police patrols around the Garfield area now. There has been a lot of gang violence and drug problems of late, with a shooting death just about every year within a couple blocks of the school. And they're cracking down on everything. I mean, motion detectors? At Garfield? It's ridiculous. I guess I'm also somewhat worried abobt detectors on the gym roof, but I'm also naturally highly cynical and paranoid about the man and being at Oberlin College isn't helping much. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 06:28, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
          P.S. Why are we having this discussion under claim of bias in ordering of clubs?

Just a thought regarding the photo[edit]

I noticed that the lines merge on the photo. I've got a view camera so I could take a picture which has a low POV with the lines still remaining parallel. Unfortunately I don't have a digital back (those things are ridiculously expensive) nor a negative scanner that can handle sheet film, so I would have to scan in the processed image and as you know that can sometimes result in poor quality. I do have a digital snapshot camera that I could try, but with it I can't avoid merging of course... Unless I were to perhaps take a telephoto shot from the roof of the gym, assuming I can get permission to take such a shot. Should we just stick with this picture or would you guys like me to try and get a new photo without merging lines? CAPS LOCK 19:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I faced those same difficulties when I was going for that shot. The first one we had was great. It was taken from the pool parking lot beofre there were portables. Unfortunately it was unlicensed/not able to be used. I've always thought that the roof of the gym would be the best place, but I doubt T-How would like it. I think that someone should go during the weekend and just do it. I mean, as long as you don't show the roof of the gym in the photo, there's no proof that you were actually there. You could have been suspended from a helicopter, hence not trespassing. So yeah, next time I'm in Seattle I'll do it if it hasn't been done by then. You have to take it at the right time of day to maximize lighting from the northern exposure. The shot up currently had the two big, ugly flood lights retouched. I had limited time to spend there so it isn't a great shot. So, yeah, I'll do it during spring break if someone doesn't beat me to it. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 19:52, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Right then, I'll go ahead and try the view camera shot and see how the scan goes. Hopefully not too bad. I've got a light-board so I could try to use my digital setup to read in the negative photographically - this is what a lot of the professionals do when they need to read in an odd-size negative. Unfortunately without good close-up gear for your digital camera it is really an iffy process... CAPS LOCK 20:23, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Great. Do you think you could take a photo of Nova as well? I just wrote a stub for it. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 14:44, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Drama section[edit]

Someone else, I don't remember who, removed student names from the Drama section. I agree with them that the particular actors/actresses involved aren't really notable. The point that is being made is that the program is amazing, not look at all these people who went through the program. If some of them become famous actors, then it should be mentioned as early career development, otherwise I don't think they should. This is in no way meant to offend—I was at Cabaret; they were awesome— so please don't take it that way. —WAvegetarianCONTRIBUTIONSTALK EMAIL 04:37, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Question: do we really need to list all those awards? I don't think so. I mean, yeah, okay, we get it. Garfield wins a lot of awards. What prevails here? Completeness of information, or ease of reading? —Insaneinside 00:11, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that there is much more info on that than there is on other sections. Be bold and rewrite it if you want to. If we want it back it will be in the history section. Just make sure you use a descriptive edit summary so that we can find it later.—WAvegetarian(talk) 20:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

School Name?[edit]

Hey all, congrats on a great article for Garfield. Question: is the school really officially called James A. Garfield High School? I only recall hearing it referred to as Garfield High School. Reason I ask is that I recently changed the Seattle Public Schools article to show my own alma mater as Roosevelt High School, as "Theodore" is not part of the school's name. I was going to change that page to list high schools with first names only where they are used, e.g. Nathan Hale. But given the quality of this page, I figured I should check with you folks about the name before making changes. 171.159.64.10 00:26, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I remember it as James A. Garfield High School when I went there 20 years ago, but there appear to be no references to the "James A." part on the official site. I also find no mention of the name in my Arrows from the mid-80s. So maybe it is just GHS.--Mike Selinker 01:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I added category sorting so it at least shows up under G. -- Usgnus 03:11, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
  • No one calls it James A. Garfield, but that's what it says on the molding on the building, as evidenced by the photo. I just looked at my Arrows and they don't say James A. either. The real test, though, is what it says on the diplomas, which is "Seattle Public Schools Garfield High School." Probably should be changed. I have to leave for a Scrabble tournament, but if it hasn't been moved when I get back tonight, I'll move it and change the appropriate links. —WAvegetarian(talk) 15:37, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

CRAP!! I just moved it per above and then went to change the wording of the article to reflect the change when I saw the annual report that I had cited earlier. The annual report from the school district does say James A. Garfield. I have no idea now. Should we go by the annual report or by common usage, diplomas, yearbooks, and websites? Only two double redirects were created: James A. Garfield High School, Seattle, Washington and James A. Garfield High School, Seattle, WA. One of these is on someone's watchlist; the other is not linked to. I can't undo page moves as I'm not an admin, so it is staying as is for now. I think it is highly unlikely that anyone will stumble across either of these before they get to the article. Can I get some feedback on which to go by? —WAvegetarian(talk) 05:57, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I'm thinking that the official name of the school appears to be James A. Garfield, but that doesn't mean that we have to use it. If everybody calls in Garfield High School, go with that as the article name. The first line of the text can say James A. Garfield, but all subsequent references are should be to Garfield. My opinion, anyway.--Mike Selinker 07:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Per WP:NC, the article should be named "giv[ing] priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature." Based on that, I'd suggest you should use the school's official name, qualified by it's location (i.e., James A. Garfield High School (Seattle, WA)), and list it on the disambiguation page at Garfield High School that way. Anyone coming in looking for "Garfield High" can reasonably be expected to find this article from there, if this is the school they're interested in. RossPatterson 18:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed; it might be advisable to put in redirects for the variants if we do this though. CAPS LOCK 00:04, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Slang/Jargon Section[edit]

Concerns have been raised over whether this section should be included due to its not being encyclopedic. While I agree that the current style of this section is unencyclopedic, I think that the culture of the school is an encyclopedic topic worth covering. The painting of the stack and culture surrounding activities on Alder Street are, now with the remodel "were", an integral part of the Garfield student culture. I didn't create this section, but feel that it will and has served as a spot to draw in new editors. Eventually I would like to see this section become a nice paragraph detailing the changing culture of the school through the years as evidenced by the words students at the time used to describe it. I realize this may be somewhat of a pipe dream. Currently I feel that the section is doing less harm than good so I haven't deleted it. Please say what you think so that we may come to a consensus on what to do with it.—WAvegetarian(talk) 00:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

The Garfield Messenger used to have a pdf archive of back issues on its web site that could be cited for this section, but the site is undergoing a redesign and has been stripped of its content. I assume that it will be back up by the end of the calendar year. I also recently got rid of my personal archive of issues as they were taking up too much space so I can't cite that. Is anyone out there reading this? Do you have an opinion?—WAvegetarian(talk) 03:25, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Diversity?[edit]

It is true that Garfield is an ethnically diverse place, but that does not mean that this diversity is unproblematic. It seems that every year an article is written in the Times or the PI about how Garfield is a world divided. I think that it would not be unwarranted to include recent statistics that show the overall ethnic diversity of the school in comparison to the ehtnic diversity of the AP programs, along with an analysis of this info.

This analysis could be related to a more in depth history of the school.

Diversity at Garfield is not adequately discussed here. I would like to add something more in depth in this regard, but would first like to hear the thoughts of others.


--Stevestretch 22:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

As a recent graduate of Garfied I can say that many of these articles are not written from a NPOV. Many of these writers went in knowing the story they wanted to write and looked only for evidence to support that POV. Everyone knows Garfield has problems; let's go "investigate" it for our special feature. The responses that these articles receive from the Garfield community in the form of letters to the editor is telling. I am not saying that there aren't problems, just that there is no hostility, which seems to get missed. What people don't seem to realize is that the division while very real doesn't involve outward racial tension. One of Garfield's security guards, the brother of Aaron Dixon, is a former student who grew up during the era of the Black Panther Party. In the last issue of the Messenger's news magazine he wrote about his experiences with diversity and how it has affected the community over the course of the last few decades. His view point, of an African-American who has spent his whole life in and around Garfield, is not unbiased, but comes from a better knowledge base than the various reporters who swing through every year or so. Talking about diversity is fine. Discussing the inequities that exist and the achievement gap is fine. Playing up racial tensions and the hostile division between the "Two Garfields" is crap because it doesn't exist. I realize this wasn't suggested, but I have seen it happen so many times that I wanted to preemptively mention my feelings on it.—WAvegetarian(talk) 00:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)


I certainly did not intend to imply that we should follow the conclusions of local journalists in addressing problematic aspects of diversity at GHS. I am also a recent graduate, and know that much of what others in the city believe to be true about Garfield, is not. Your criticism that many articles about Garfield do not reflect a NPOV is valid, but, it is irresponsible to say that Garfield is, "known for its outstanding academic and arts programs, and for its high degree of cultural diversity," and just leave it at that. Addressing the unequal racial makeup of the school's academic programs is more than "fine," it is essential. This is true whether or not there is open racial hostility at Garfield. It is, perhaps, all the more significant that a school that has made such dramatic strides in race relations still exhibits such a glaring racial division. The last thing I intend to do is sensationalize the topic of diversity. I believe that an open and honest discussion of the "two Garfields" will do anything but. Such a discussion will do much to dispel myths about what Garfield is, while allowing current students, alumns, and members of the faculty and staff to continue to address an ongoing problem at Garfield.--Stevestretch 02:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I must also clarify that I didn't mean "fine" to sound reluctant or indifferent. I think that the paragraph above may have been interpreted wrong. I have had some bad experiences with folks who know nothing other than what they've read and pester me about white kids pushing blacks out of the way to get time with counselors (responded to with a large {{citationneeded}}). I wasn't aware of where you were coming from on the issue and didn't know what your idea of addressing it entailed. I haven't written more about it in part because of my strong personal feelings regarding the discussion of it. I was, for instance, at the PTSA meeting where a CD community member told Laura Strentz of all people that she and all the other white teachers involved with Post cared nothing for struggling minority students and had done nothing but serve the interests of rich white students. For outsiders reading this, Laura Strentz has done more work on the achievement gap than any other teacher I can think of, including getting approval for and then running an separate remedial curricular track for 9th and 10th grade which brings kids up to speed and ready to enter the 11th grade with the skills everyone else has. This program has proved wildly successful and provides a support network of teachers and classmates that is available to help for the four years the kid is in the school. This is an important thing for kids that don't have strong academic support from home. Anyway... After spending senior dealing with folks who are stuck in the "Screw Whitey" mentality a few too many times in too many situations that it was completely unucalled for I don't feel I can write about this well enough for Wikipedia. I would be happy to look over, copy edit, etc. anything that gets written about it, but I am going to recuse myself from the major content production.—WAvegetarian(talk) 14:55, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Swim Team[edit]

Why was the Swim Team tradition banned exactly? Can someone just add a sentence confirming WHY exactly the principle suddenly decided it was innapropriate?

Pstanton 07:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Valedictorians[edit]

How can there be "dozens of valedictorians" each year? Isn't a valedictorian precisely the individual with the highest grades, who gives the valedictory speech at graduation? - Jmabel | Talk 06:19, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Ah, I see. 44 people with perfect 4.0s. Grade inflation, I presume. - Jmabel | Talk