Talk:Gavin Menzies

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Chinese treasure ship[edit]

About 600 years ago, china made a big Punt (ship). And the author believes it was the most advanced ship in history.

Chinese treasure ship - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia A Chinese treasure ship (Chinese: 宝船; pinyin: bǎochuán) was a type of large wooden ship in the fleet of admiral Zheng He, who led seven voyages during the ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lushreader (talkcontribs) 14:07, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

The book is "1421: The Year China Discovered the World", by Gavin Menzies, is not a serious book.[edit]

We do not prove or disprove theories, we report what reliable sources have stated. In this case I think it is pretty clear that we have stated what the reliable sources have state: "Menzies claims are fringe" . No need to continue such a discussion-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:00, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A) china was a very week country for 2000 years.

1) chinese were the lowest class in mongol, manchu, xianbei, Khitan, Jurchen empires. genghis khan's law, killing a chinese = killing a donkey, sorry to mention this

2)jurchen took two chinese kings, and forced them walk naked on the streets. chinese kings had to call the kings of jurchen as uncle for about 100 years. Men of chinese royal family were sold into slavery in exchange for horses with a ratio of ten men for one horse.

3) chinese king had to call the Khan of Khitan as father, grandfather

4)Aother two chinese kings of chinese were also taken by foreigners as slaves.

5) manchus ruled china for 300 years till 1911. the population rate was 100,000,000 chinese VS1.000.000 manchus.

6)Then japan invaded of china since 1937-1945, and killed over 30 millions chinese (some references say japanese killed over 12 millions chinese). Russia and USA saved china , Otherwise china should ruled by japan now.

6) 300,000 mongols defeat 60 million chinese. The mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china was very weak. It lost all wars against japan, vietnam, burma, and java. It only defeated china.

7) The Batu mongol Empire was far stronger than the mongol empire (Yuan Mongol Empire) which ruled china.

8)manchuria Empire was very weak. it lost all war against burma and vietnam, it only defeated china.

Manchuria empire lost its entire task force which invaded burma, Include its commander Ming Rui.

B) china was very poor

1) In the past 2000 years. There were more than 110 great Famines in china, people even had to eat people to stay alive.

2) In 1959-1961. . there are 30,000,000 chinese died in starvation. Great Chinese Famine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3) in 1960's, chinese defence minister Peng Dehui said many chinese had no pants to wear.

4) in chinese ming empire - general Lu Xiangsheng said that, many chinese soldier had no pants to wear.

5)in WWII, chinese soldiers still wear grass shoes.

6)chinese prime minster wang anshi (chinese song empire) had louses on his beard when he talked to his king.

Soap was invented in Babylon 2800 B.C. Soap was mentioned in the Bible. By the second century A.D., the Greek recommended soap for both medicinal and cleansing purposes. chinese started to use soap 100 years ago. .

7)Marco Polo may did not go to china at all.

Marco Polo -

Marco Polo, Liar? - Los Angeles Times

8)Ming Dynasty › ... › Chinese Culture › China History

Feb 23, 2014 - The Ming Dynasty is the last feudal regime established by the Han ... and then it fell due to internal rebellions and the attack of the Manchus. ...Perhaps tens of millions of (chinese) people died, and these disasters were ..... In the first half of the 1600s, famines became common in northern China because of unusually ...

C) china was far behind Europe in history.

1) Middle east invented writing 5000 years ago.

2) since china invented writing only about 3500 years ago, so the so-called 5000 years chinese civilization is a completely joke.

The oldest chinese oracle bones is about 3500 years.

3) since china entered Iron age 600 years later than Europe and Near East,so china has a much shorter civilization.

At the time, European used iron tools, chinese used primitive tools.

4) when European and middle east people built stone houses, chinese king lived in a mud palace. The Great Pyramid of Giza was built 4500 years ago. Erlitou, The capital of china(2100 BC – 1600 BC) was built by mud.

5)china did not invent paper, gun powder,printing, the magnetic compass.

Professor Joseph Needham proved china invented paper, gun powder,printing, the magnetic compass.

Needham has been criticized for his strong inclination to exaggerate Chinese technological achievements.

example, gunpowder gunpowder was invented by Greek - Greek fire, its chief ingredient was saltpeter, and sulfur, making it an early form of gunpowder.

Glass was invented 5000 years ago. It was before chinese history. The world did not to wait for china to invent gunpowder.

6) china was far behind Greece chinese started to learn solid geometry in chinese qing empire, about 400 years ago.their text book was Euclid's Elements, which wrote by Euclid 2000 years ago.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Obligatory talk page discussion[edit]

Clearly, claims of character assassination are just plain wrong, and the relevant policies, guidelines, and essays here are WP:FRINGE, WP:GEVAL, and WP:BLPZEALOT. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:23, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

These IPs are sockpuppets of ProfessorJane so we don't need to give them credence.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 01:28, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
I'm aware of that now, and was not creating this for any real discussion, but just to prevent something that's happened to me at WP:3RRNB before: admin who doesn't know me mistakes me for n00b, doesn't bother to check the edits, accuses me of edit warring for not discussing the matter (thankfully hasn't resulted in a block, but has prevented blocks that should've taken place). Ian.thomson (talk) 01:44, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The article cites multiple highly-credible sourrces regarding academic opinion of Menzies' pseudohistory. The article complies with Wikipedia policy, and attempts by the IP to whitewash the article cannot be permitted to stand. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:59, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
It appears ProfessorJane is back. Ian.thomson (talk) 19:40, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Seems to be an attack on the book[edit]

I was under the impression that a Wiki entry should be about the subject. It seems that most of the information here DEBUNKS the book. It seems out of proportion with the amount of space devoted to describing the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:58, 10 July 2015 (UTC)