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Italian is mentioned, but no example. I'm not familiar with Italian. Could anyone give an example?

It seems Japanese has vowel gemination. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Infofarmer (talkcontribs) 10:47, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Vowel gemination is an oxymoron. The term gemination only applies to consonants. Rikat (talk) 19:37, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

The article asserts that geminates are 1.5 to 2 X longer than singletons, but I believe the range of variation from language to language is larger than that. Here is a quote from William Ham, Phonetic and Phonological Aspects of Geminate Timing, Routledge, 2001 ISBN 0415937604:

From a purely phonetic perspective, geminates can be described as long consonants, although the degree to which they are longer than their singleton counterparts varies widely from language to language. Ladefoged & Maddieson (1996: 91-92), for example, report from their cross-linguistic survey that, depending on the language, geminates are on average between one-and-a-half and three times as long as singletons in careful speech.

Rikat (talk) 19:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)


Russian does not distinguish between long and short consonants (or vowels, for that matter) in speech, but only in writing. I can say that as a native speaker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Disregard the comment above. I am native speaker too and definitely distinguish between long and short consonant in Russian. Though, it may drop in fast or children-like speech. All scientists recognize it. (talk) 20:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Russian phonology says that only /n/ and /nʲ/ are actually geminated. It may depend on dialect, though whatever the case may be it's definitely true that many instances of written double consonants don't indicate actual gemination in speech. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 00:01, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


Info about gemination in Polish is false. While polish language has geminates (double consonants) it is not a gemination. It should be always pronounced as two separate (repeated) consonats. Long vovels and long consonants does not exist in Polish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:09, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

"rodziny – 'families'; ssaki - 'mammals', rodzinny – adjective of 'family'" - that ssaki part seems to be irrelevant or corrupted. Anyone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The information on Polish is false, in such or another way. Whether they are geminates or not is disputable. Indeed, there is a possiblitity to pronounce them as a one long vowel, even if some prescriptive biased linguists call it incorrect. However, it is not the only possible way, and the pronunciation as two separated consonants is also possible, especially in slow speech. Anyway, the statement "it occurs in words of more than one morpheme, where the final morpheme of the first part is the same as the initial morpheme of the second" is completely false!!! There is no difference in treating double consonants both on the morpheme border and within the same morpheme. Rodzinny, wwozić, zzuć, greccy, lekki, jakkolwiek, najjaśniejszy are examples of the first type. Note double consonants in the initial position. It is possible because prefixes "w" and "z" contain only one consonant. But there are also examples of double consonants not on morpheme borders, like ssaki (which is cited and is not in accordance with the description!), czczy "vane" (: czy "whether"), dżdżownica "earthworm", dżdżysty "rainy (bookish)" (all word-initially), and also wanna "bathtub", Anna "Anna", Mekka, kwagga, kappa, Jaffa, gamma "Greek letter" (: gama "music scale"), Budda, Jagiełło, Allah, horror, Aszszur. See for more. (talk) 19:54, 11 November 2013 (UTC)


The example of Japanese is exactly contrary - "came" = kitta, "cut (past)" = kita —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 12:16, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I didn't change anything, but the article is currently correct. kuru 'come' is an irregular verb with past tense kita 'came'. kiru 'slice' is a godan verb that could be mistaken as ichidan with past tense kitta 'sliced'. Wikky Horse (talk) 17:53, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

English gemination[edit]

Wolf Leslau used to give the word 'penknife' as a clear case of in-word gemination in English.Kdammers (talk) 01:24, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

“Orange juice” is listed as an example of non-gemination, but the IPA transcription shows gemination, and that is the only pronunciation I know. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:29, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

I pronounce it with [ʒdʒ]. CodeCat (talk) 14:51, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

"night train" versus "night rain"[edit]

This is wrong. "train" is pronounced as [t͡ʃɹeɪn] and is definitely different from "...t rain" [t ɹeɪn].-- (talk) 18:34, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

You are claiming that train is pronounced as if it were spelled "chrain". I have never, ever, heard an English speaker pronounce the word this way. These dictionaries all agree that the pronunciation is /treɪn/, in both American and British English:
I am removing the "dubious" tag until someone can provide a source for this alternate pronunciation. CodeTalker (talk) 21:07, 19 January 2017 (UTC)
Dictionaries only give phonemic transcriptions. I think phonetically the t is sometimes pronounced as ch by assimilation because r is postalveolar. Alveolar t sometimes becomes postalveolar ch before a postalveolar. — Eru·tuon 21:59, 19 January 2017 (UTC)


"With affricates, however, this does not occur. For instance: orange juice [ˈɒrɨndʒ.dʒuːs]" The English section says "this does not occur" with affricates, but then shows an instance in which gemination does, in fact, occur with affricates. I'm confused. (talk) 21:51, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Hmm, that's a good question. It's confusing, as you say. I think perhaps it's because gemination of an affricate is supposed to result in doubled stop portion, rather than the whole affricate being repeated. So, if orange juice had gemination, it would be pronounced as [ˈɒrɨnddʒuːs] or [ˈɒrɨndːʒuːs] with the [d], the stop part of the affricate, doubled, instead of [ˈɒrɨndʒ.dʒuːs] where the whole affricate is repeated. So that might be why the article says affricates aren't geminated. — Eru·tuon 00:16, 7 June 2015 (UTC)


although several languages feature both independently (as in Arabic, Japanese, Finnish, and Estonian), or have interdependent vowel and consonant length (as in Norwegian and Swedish). (talk) 12:41, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Geminized stops seem to have nasals ie. [bː] vs /mb/[edit]

[bː] appears to be a /mb/ just as /tː/ appears to be /nt/ GamerGeekWiki (talk) 02:57, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

- I could be articulating it wrong, but I doubt it. GamerGeekWiki (talk) 03:03, 12 February 2017 (UTC)