Talk:Gender pay gap

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  • Kathleen Geier (May 18, 2013). "The unmasking of a troll, and Wikipedia’s Achilles’ heel". Washington Monthly. Retrieved 25 May 2013. "For example, Wikipedia’s entries on the gender pay gap and equal pay for women contain seriously misleading information. The gender gap article falsely implies that the gap may be caused by “differences in personal and workplace characteristics between women and men,” but every rigorous study has shown that even when those characteristics are taken into account, the gap remains. Yes, the article also says that discrimination may play a role, but only in a “experts differ on shape of the earth,” false equivalence kind of way. And the equal pay article includes a weird theory, attributed largely to a single source, that the wage gap may be reversing in favor of women because there is less of a gap between younger workers. But that’s a garbage theory, because historically the gap has always been the widest among older workers. A lifetime of small instances of discrimination accumulate into an increasingly large gap as workers age." 

The Gender pay gap is a myth[edit]

Are we gonna include studies that show aggregate observations between the wages in men and women don't take into account the fact that women typically go into lower paying industries (teaching), among other factors? It's like saying Mexicans make less than white men, we must make a law because its due to discrimination rather than, you know, lower wage industries. There's been plenty of studies that show the gap has been exaggerated and due to legitimate reasons other than guys hate women. Part of it is also due to men working longer hours, taking less breaks, and not having to deal with child birth, which cuts into the time spent working. 74.108.217.11 (talk) 00:28, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505125_162-28246928/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow

When even height and hand dominance correlate with earning power, claiming that gender doesn't speaks more to one's own assumptions than logical extrapolation of evidence. 98.162.150.124 (talk) 18:11, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

The Gender Pay Gap Across Industries[edit]

It may make sense to see where the gender pay gap is most prevalent, in an industry-specific sense. I was able to find articles that show that when education, experience, age and marital status still remain the same for men and women in the technical field, a woman is still likely to earn only 80 percent of what a male earns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amandeep110 (talkcontribs) 04:54, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Untitled[edit]

I did a major overhaul of this, mainly because it was pretty factually incorrect, contained personal deductions. What it needs now is to go indepth explaining of the topic,

  • Why it occurs (social disadvantages).
  • Ways used to mitigate it.
  • Past examples of efforts taken around the world.

Made some major edits to clean up the beginning and change how some of the data was presented in misleading ways.Sixtylarge2000 (talk) 11:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

--sansvoix 03:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Merge Gender Gap into this[edit]

Now that gender gap refers to socio-economic factors, it probabaly should be moved here (considering they both are small articles).--sansvoix 03:56, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Makes sense to me.--Bkwillwm 05:45, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Country Specific[edit]

Why so much emphasis on Malaysia?-- George

I agree. The information is good, but would be better in the Economy of Malaysia article, with just a link here, if absolutely required. --122.162.58.13 (talk) 13:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I also agree, Malaysia is great and all, but what about Borneo, the People's Democratic republic of Congo and Liechtenstein? These global powerhouses are currently left out of this articles, despite thier prominence on the World Stage. Why not include the countries most people actually care about? 144.82.106.54 (talk) 22:27, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Clarify Chart[edit]

Chart is for Manufacturing not wages in general, someone needs to fix that. --64.231.161.251 (talk) 06:55, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Gender Gap[edit]

This article is only about income disparity as it relates to gender. It should be titled accordingly. Title suggestions: 172.131.186.156 (talk) 20:24, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

  • Gender income disparity
  • Income inequality between gender
  • Male–female income disparity —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.131.186.156 (talk) 21:36, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Australia?[edit]

Why is there a special subsection for Australia which only contains a link to a page that doesn't exist?

I'm removing it.

gzur (talk) 11:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved.--rgpk (comment) 01:07, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The income disparities between women and men are usually known as gender pay gap or gender wage gap. The European Commission uses gender pay gap [1] and so does the United States goverment [2], the UK government [3] and the Australian government [4]. The OECD, on the other hand, says gender wage gap [5]. "Income gender gap" has 59 hits on google scholar [6] whereas "gender pay gap" has about 6,170 [7] and "gender wage gap" 9,650 [8] hits on google scholar. I would like to put this to a vote. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 19:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC) (updated sources on April 24, 2011 --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 17:11, 24 April 2011 (UTC))

  • Support. Change to Gender Pay Gap. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 19:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
  • Support change to "Gender Pay Gap" per your sources and also because it makes more sense than "income gender gap". --Aronoel (talk) 19:42, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Replaced 2004 UN stats with 2008 OECD report[edit]

I thought it was a much needed update, particularly because the UN stats were all about manufacturing. Also the OECD report offers explanations for the wage gap which the UN stats do not.

If anyone wants to reinsert the UN stats alongside the OECD report, go ahead. Perhaps it's a good idea to have the OECD report and the UN stats.

Also: Could anyone maybe try to find a better illustration than that drab gray table? Thanks! --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 22:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

No global perspecitve[edit]

Where are the developing countries? This replacement of UN statistics by OECD statistics made the article less global. If it stays in this form, it should be renamed Gender pay gap in industrialized countries or "Gender pay in the western world".


Any suggestions for useful UN statistics, or literature with global perspective? This might be an example. Mange01 (talk) 13:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Mange01, the UN statistics were restricted to one industry/occupation, manufacturing, and therefore unacceptable for this article. Moreover, they were outdated. So instead of renaming the article Gender pay gap in manufacturing, I did the only thing that made sense: Include OECD and Eurostat statistics that cover all occupations and industries.
Updated UN statistics would be great in Gender pay gap by industry and occupation, but we don't have such an article yet.
For the gender pay gap in "developing economies" see for instance: Arabsheibani 2000, Garcia-Aracil and Winter 2006, Grün 2004, Hossain and Tisdell 2005, Liu 2004...
Or look here. However, the source relies on older Eurostat data for Europe and older (sometimes as old as 2001) data from the International Labour Organization, the Australian Bureau of Statistics et al. This means that if we include all data from the report, we will replace 2008 statistics with 2001-2006 stats for some countries. Therefore I suggest, we only use stats for the countries that aren't already covered by Eurostat or the OECD. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 16:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
One more thing: If you okay the ITUC stats, please consider the type of graph or table you want to use for so much information. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 16:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Addition of new section[edit]

People who know a few things about wage decompositions and are familiar with basic concepts like multiple regressions and Oaxaca-Blinder may not need an introductory section about what it means when the European Commission, for instance, states: "In the European Union, women earn on average 17.5% less than men." But I think that a person who has no experience with pay gap statistics might find it difficult to understand what "explained/unexplained part of the pay gap" or things like that mean. There are of course, many different approaches to adjust the pay gap and all of them have their methodological problems, but I don't think that this is the right place to describe them. Therefore, I only included the common explanation of the difference between the unadjusted/unadjusted pay gap and one major methodological drawback which is that the adjusted pay gap is not always a perfect measure of discrimination. So I added this section. --Sonicyouth86 (talk) 20:30, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a good step ahead. However, now the article stresses the importance between the adjusted and the adjusted pay gap, yet shows several figures without mentioning which they are! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.141.55.183 (talk) 22:03, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

USA[edit]

Cut from this section:

  • In 2009, David R. Hekman and colleagues found that men receive significantly higher customer satisfaction scores than equally well-performing women. Hekman et al. found that customers who viewed videos featuring a female and a male actor playing the role of an employee helping a customer were 19% more satisfied with the male employee's performance and also were more satisfied with the store's cleanliness and appearance. This despite that the actors performed identically, read the same script, and were in exactly the same location with identical camera angles and lighting. Moreover, 38% of the customers were women, indicating that even women and minority raters are susceptible to systematic gender biases. In a second study, they found that male doctors were rated as more approachable and competent than equally-well performing female doctors. They interpret their findings to suggest that customer ratings tend to be inconsistent with objective indicators of performance and should not be uncritically used to determine pay and promotion opportunities. They contend that in addition to addressing factors that cause bias in customer ratings, organizations should take steps to minimize the potential adverse impact of customer biases on female employees’ careers.[1][2][3][4][5]

The above paragraph does not summarize the contents of Male–female income disparity in the United States, and while it might be a good insight in itself, really belongs in the 'main' article. Let's have a short summary, of the main article here, which would be (I believe) in accordance with policy on Wikipedia:Summary style. --Uncle Ed (talk) 02:04, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Comments by Economist John Goodman on the Subject[edit]

‎"The reason economists have trouble with the idea of rampant [gender] pay discrimination is that it defies common sense. Let's say I own a company and I am employing only men. Is it really true that I could fire all the men, replace them with women and lower my cost of labor by 23%? If I could do that why wouldn't I? If I were stupid enough not to do it, wouldn't a competitor of mine do it and drive me out of business?"

"In other words, if workers received substantially different pay for doing the same job, an employer would have to be leaving a lot of money on the table by not hiring the lower-paid employees. (Remember, most people who believe in pay discrimination also believe most CEOs are selfish, money-grubbing sorts as well.) And it can't just be one employer. In order for pay differentials to persist in entire industries, every employer in the market must be willing to discriminate — including the firms run by women!"

~John Goodman — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.142.73.216 (talk) 01:17, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Gender wage gap in Russia Wikipedia:USEP/Courses/Labor/Gender II: Economics of Gender (Gunseli Berik)[edit]

I am planing to write a new article on the gender wage gap in Russia. I believe that it is advisable to pay special attention to the case of Russia (and maybe other post Soviet republics) if one wants to understand in more depth the reasons for the emergence of wage gaps and apply correct policies for its eradication. Why Russia?

  • Justification: Even though the education achievements of women in Russia are higher then those of men and their participation in the labor market is roughly equal to the male participation, the wage gap in this country is persistent and substantial. Russia’s case therefore becomes of particular interest as it preaches that policies which target only an increase in women's level of education and their participation in the labor market might not be very helpful in decreasing the gender wage gap if not accompanied by more activist policies; policies which would fight against the stereotypes of the male/female division of labor and the discriminatory practices employed at the work place as well as within the family.

A very rough outline of the planned content is as follows:

  • Section 1: short description of the concept of the wage gap
  • Section 2: the Oxaca and Blinder decomposition of the wage gap
  • Section 3: Evolution of the wage gap in Russia
  • Section 4: analysis of the wage gap in Russia according to the Oxaca and Blinder decomposition.
  • Section 5: Russia’s official’s position in regard to the wage gap

Any comments or suggestions would be very welcome. Thank you.

Corinabesliu1965 (talk) 15:47, 22 October 2012 (UTC)Corina Besliu

Implicit discrimination and lifestyle choices[edit]

The introduction to this article reads: "There is a debate to what extent this is the result of gender differences, implicit discrimination due to lifestyle choices [...]". However, it does not become clear why different lifesytle choices constitute implicit discrimination. This should either be plausibly explained or omitted. --67.165.219.73 (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Wage inequality/Wage equality[edit]

Should those terms redirect here, too? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 22:20, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Removed an unsupported line from the lede[edit]

I removed the following line from the lede, as it did not appear to be supported in any way by the reference that came with it:

Furthermore, studies show that even when experience, education, marital status and industries remain the same, men still get paid significantly more

The cited article, the CONSAD report, appears to conclude the exact opposite.

Page 2: The differences in raw wages may be almost entirely the result of the individual choices being made by both male and female workers.

Page 15: Nevertheless, it can confidently be concluded that, collectively, those factors [already identified] account for a major portion and, possibly, almost all of the raw gender wage gap

Certainly I cannot see any justification in the report for the sentence that was in the lede. I have removed it accordingly. If someone is able to back it up with a source, feel free to re-add.

almightybob (pray) 21:24, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
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