Talk:George Stinney

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Birthday not correct[edit]

When he was 14 at execution in 1944, how was he born in 1897 as stated in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.254.89.229 (talk) 19:34, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Media section should be labeled as such[edit]

This isn't a upcoming fantastic movie we are talking about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.11.167.2 (talk) 05:23, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

POV[edit]

Do we really need to mention race at every chance we get? "George Stinney, who was black.... murdering two white girls". "...was interrogated by many white officers". What's the point? This could be implying that he was wrongfully charged on the basis of race. Really, there is no need to mention everyone's race. 98.226.26.89 (talk) 19:08, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it was South Carolina, in the 1940s, and race did matter there at that time. In fact, it mattered more than anything else about a person, including what they did. Suggesting otherwise is, well, kind of like suggesting that the Earth is flat, that gravity is just a theory that can be disregarded at whim, or that the victims of the Salem Witch Trials really were engaged in witchery and unnatural pacts with devils or whatnot. It is patently ludicrous and would be vaguely entertaining for its pure unadulterated ignorance if it was not about the subject that it is about. Katana0182 04:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
While I think it is fine to expand the article, I had a few issues with how some of it was presented. I'd actually tend to think there was more POV displayed in the way some things were presented than there ever was in referring to race. I made a few changes to try and eliminate that appearance. Two points that used the qualifier of "apparently" were removed or changed: "Swift action to solve the crime was apparently taken by the sherrif's deputies" was not cited and appeared to be an unsupported conclusion, and the use of the word in the sentence "both girls apparently "fought back"". The article states clearly Stinney's age at the beginning, so one would have to question why his description of "(90 lbs, 5'1", 14 years old)" would warrant inclusion twice in the same paragraph. Another issue I had was the repeated use of quote marks around certain words in the description of the crime, mostly around the word "kill" (3 times) and the words "confessed" and "confession". Whether these indicated actual quotations from the book was completely unclear, but it did tend to make it appear as editorial in context and gave the appearance of emphasis on the part of whoever was writing it. Finally, we don't italicize quotes from a source, it is only quoted. Finally, if you are quoting a source and the use of what is generally considered an epithet for emphasis, it really is unnecessary to apologize for its use. Wildhartlivie (talk) 06:55, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
The reason why I repeated Stinney's measurements is because it appears relevant to the question of whether the accused, a 14 year old prepubescent male, weighing 90 lbs, and 5'1" tall, would really be able to simultaneously murder 2 females (ages 8 and 11), and not only murder them, but shatter each's skull in 4-5 pieces. The point that I was trying to make in my edit is that perhaps the reader should look critically at the physical evidence in the case, as the supposed perpetraror was short, small, and prepubescent.
Further, it appears the only circumstantial evidence that linked Stinney to the killings, however tenuously, was that he was the last individual who spoke with the victims prior to their deaths. Looking at this in the racial context of the times inevitably implies that this circumstance - the African American accused speaking to the Caucasian female victims - was given a tremendous amount of weight - in determining guilt or innocence. I didn't feel that all the the physical evidence that Jones illustrated were fully illuminated in the prior version of the article which appeared to implicitly take Stinney's "confession" at face value. Perhaps this is original research, but I didn't state my suspicion, merely juxtaposed Stinney's height, weight, and age with descriptions of what Stinney supposedly "confessed" to, so as to encourage critical examination by readers.
I apologize for any formatting errors.
Do you concur that the removal of the POV tag is now warranted? Katana0182 15:40, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't doubt that your conclusions are valid, the only problem is that we have to be careful not to slant the way it is written to convey that thought in the absence of reliable sourcing, thus removing the quotes and repetition of the description. Writing things in a non-POV manner is not so easy sometimes, especially when it seems that the majority seems to doubt the guilt of this boy. The only reason why this is considered notable is because of his age, the social climate of the time, and doubt concerning it. We can't synthesize a point of view by how things are presented, but we can find adequate reliable sources that would support a discussion of that neutrally. I think that perhaps an attempt to present the information without bias may have made it appear that the story was accepted although the sources at hand didn't give that much assistance in writing it in any other manner. I greatly expanded the article a few months ago, based on the sourcing I could find. You can see how it looked prior to that here. I don't think the article overstates the mention of race or that the prejudice of the times can't be overstated, I do agree with the removal of the POV tag. Perhaps if enough solid sourcing could be found, a section on the bias exhibited in the arrest, confession and conviction could be supported, and I certainly do not object to that being formulated. I'm only concerned that it be presented neutrally and without conveying, even unintentionally, a writer's opinion of it. Thanks. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:53, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

This is typical wikipedia: racism toward white people i.e. always favoring those who want to excuse black male crimes against white people. The wiki version here is about 90% FALSE. This version is Obviously written by people with an agenda. George committed the crime. There was no doubt about it back then! This is yet ANOTHER attempt by agenda seekers to use wikipeia to rewrite American history. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.102.175 (talk) 16:07, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually this is typical application of core Wikipedia policy, which is that the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is "verifiability, not truth." "Verifiability" in this context means that material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. In other words we editors may not add our own views to articles simply because we believe them to be correct, and may not remove sources' views from articles simply because we personally disagree with them.--Mystichumwipe (talk) 05:56, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

"Actually this is typical application of core Wikipedia policy" EXACTLY. White Christian people are to be presented as low-down pack of demons. American history is being rewritten with that in mind...and wiki is playing a BIG part. To imply that Goerge Stinney is innocent, that white southern 'racists' railroaded him into a confession, is despicable. A 14-year-old boy?! C'mon! Where is the proof?! There not one shred of evidence. I included the exact copy of the "published & verifiable" notes from the deputy who interrogated George Stinney. In it, he stated George told him where the murder weapon was. Only the true perp would know that! And what did wiki do (was it you?)? They pulled that from the discussion. Why? Because it didn't fit with the overall premise of the wiki plot line: white Christians MUST be presented as wicked evil-doers. And their completely innocent victims - blacks- are always the ones who suffered. BULL.

Over and over again I have seen incidences regarding American history on wkipedia being rewritten to make white people out to be a pack of demons (e.g. Rosewood, Tulsa riot, etc.). And yes, it is "typical application of core Wikipedia policy." I wrote a complete non-agenda version which was consistent with George being guilty. I included a verifiable published source (Deputy Newman's statement). And you changed it back to the original "George was railroaded by wicked southern racists' version. Don't insult my intelligence by stating you were simply following wiki policy. If there is in fact new and legitimate evidence that a reasonable person might say could point to George's innocence, then include that ONLY as a separate category at the end of the page. If Wikipedia wants to present a fair-minded description of the George Stinney crime, then George must be depicted as guilty, until ironclad evidence is introduced showing otherwise. Yet, George is being depicted as innocent on Wikipedia, and the white southern people are being depicted as a pack of evil-doers. Again, it's an agenda...and it's despicable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.102.175 (talk) 00:52, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

The page should not be about deciding whether George was innocent or guilty, and you are correct should neither be about demonising any particular group of people. You appear to believe George was guilty as charged and want the article to reflect that. That is understandadable. Wikipedia articles should present what verifiable secondary sources report and should do so objectively and impartially, (not decide for the reader one way or the other). If you think this article shows a bias you can attempt to rectify that by providing material supported by reliable secondary sources. I reverted your edits because they provided no cited source and therefore were what is called original research, i.e you edited and re-worded the article to reflect YOUR OWN personal viewpoint. Also as this article is primarily about George himself, I therefore felt the inclusion of the actual words from the Deputies notes (of what are allegedly the coerced statement of a minor) are of secondary importance and need not be given such prominence. We already have a summary of their contents. The links provided can lead the interested parties to such details of the case and readers can then decide for themselves. But if you insist we can perhaps include that.
Finally you need to sign your replies on the talk page.--Mystichumwipe (talk) 06:21, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

“You appear to believe George was guilty as charged and want the article to reflect that.” I want the article to reflect what the jury concluded in 1944 based on the evidence, which was George’s own confession. In that confession, which you have decided - using your own bias - is nothing more than “secondary importance”, George tells the deputy what he used as the weapon to kill the two girls, where to find said weapon, as well as why he killed the girls. In the confession is ironclad proof of George's guilt - for only the true murderer would know what weapon was used and where to find it. And you conclude that that material evidence is nothing more than “secondary importance?” My opinion is that you are so biased that you should not be allowed to moderate this article. Want more evidence of your clear and unmistakable biasness? Example: “alleged confession and the judicial process leading to his execution has been criticized as "suspicious at best and a miscarriage of justice at worst"“ That is an OPINION and based on nothing but personal prejudice. It is inserted to taint the article toward the ‘George was railroaded by southern white racists’ version. Then , “and an example of the many injustices African-Americans suffered in courtrooms in the Southern United States in the first half of the 20th Century” SICK! Again, a blatant attempt to steer the reader’s opinion toward George being railroaded by racist southern white people. And who do you allow as sources for those two quotes? A black female “reporter" (Zerlina Maxwell ) with a clear bias, and a group of people who are advocates for George’s alleged innocence. Yet, they offer NO exculpatory evidence. NOTHING. And what version to you (and wiki) run with? The “new” version. No evidence, no nothing, just biased opinions. But opinions that obviously reflect your own personal bias. Another gem from biased Zerlina Maxwell, that you have no problem with, “This was South Carolina in 1944, with a black male defendant, two young white female victims, and an all white, male jury. Stinney never stood a chance.’ That is opinion based on NO supporting fact(s) what-so-ever! And yet you inserted it back into the discussion when I deleted it. Based on the examples I cited, you should not be allowed to moderate this article. Your agenda is crystal clear… Again, the George Stinney article should be consistent with George being guilty ... until legitimate exculpatory evidence is shown to indicate otherwise. (steven) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.102.175 (talk) 18:18, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

You appear to not understand how wikipedia works. I can only repeat to you what has already been explained, that the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is "verifiability, not truth." "Verifiability" in this context means that material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. In other words we editors may not add our own views to articles simply because we believe them to be correct, and may not remove sources' views from articles simply because we personally disagree with them. See also original research. (Please follow the links provided by clicking on the wording in blue).--Mystichumwipe (talk) 07:00, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
HOLY COW! There is no doubt in my mind that George was guilty.
And why isn't Deputy Newman's written confession included in the wiki article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.105.102.175 (talk) 03:14, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

There is a huge market for these type of black grievance stories. Basically, we are expected to believe George was innocent because of racism (no other evidence apparently needed), so the cops decided to frame and kill a 14 year old because they are a bunch of psychopaths. Fortunately, the real murderer decided to stop after killing a 7 and 11 year old. This Wiki article does not have a neutral POV by a longshot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:C:5800:28E:F443:3605:571B:1399 (talk) 22:33, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, take a look at how parts of the article is phrased.
"Stinney, an African-American youth from South Carolina, was convicted of the first-degree murder of two pre-teen white girls:"
'pre-teen'? Seems like the author is trying to make us sympathise with the girls. This isn't a necessary adjective considering that the ages are stated after the sentence.
"who testified at a trial which lasted barely two hours,"
'barely'? Again, trying to position us to sympathise with Stinney, to hint that his execution was murder and not a justified execution.
I haven't read the entire article, but there's likely more phrasing like that. Ich bin Sal (talk) 13:16, 17 March 2014 (UTC)
Re: the current effort to clear his name: I was thinking at least the racists haven't hopped on this to try to smear the kid generations later the way the Phagan family is still clinging to the delusion that Leo Frank actually killed little Mary...and then I saw the rantings above. Very sad. Hopefully SC can provide some long overdue justice for this boy. 63.116.103.10 (talk) 21:28, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

George Stinney Jr.[edit]

Today is the first time I have heard about this case. I do, however agree that it is a racial case. For the time frame that this happened and in South Carolina, what else could it be? He and his sister were the last known people to had seen them alive...as far as who says? Maybe there was someone else around that NOBODY saw in the area! The article said he killed them at the same time! He wasn't even big enough to do this. He was "small" for his age, so, the girls may have been larger in stature than he was. And whose to say they fought back! How do we know he wanted to have sex with them! 10/04/2011 Alma — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.173.88.105 (talk) 23:04, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

I very much doubt the little 11 year-old girl looking for flowers had such a sex-drive. Moreover, he confessed to the crime and its actions. --George2001hi (talk) 12:07, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand[edit]

Sorry, I am not english and I am not able to undertand this sentence

"I don't think that they had too much of a trial"

Can anyone explain it to me?

Obrigado. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.33.84.193 (talk) 13:04, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Noone? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.33.84.193 (talk) 14:02, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

It means that they didn't have enough evidence for a trial in the first place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mohamedkaba (talkcontribs) 23:00, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

No, it means that the speaker doesn't think that the trial was fair, he thinks that it was a mock up of a trial, not a real trial. СЛУЖБА (talk) 12:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Dates[edit]

Anyone else notice the dates on the page don't work out? how could he have been killed before he was born? and how could the crime have taken place before he was born but after he was killed? I don't know the the correct dates, but I wanted to point this out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.46.194 (talk) 19:23, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Conviction status[edit]

Conviction status Deceased

How is that a conviction status? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.6.176 (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia's standards specifies Conviction status as "e.g. at-large, in prison, on parole, released, dead (specify if executed), etc." Removing POV template. - Pingveno 22:36, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Removing POV[edit]

I am removing the POV tag. The original reasoning for adding a POV tag was resolved back in 2010. The only person since then wanted an article that agreed with the jury's (clearly wrong/racist) opinion. It's been a year, so away goes the POV tag. Pingveno 05:20, 8 October 2013 (UTC)