Talk:Georgia (U.S. state)

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sourcechecked=true but I found the required information at the Supreme Court of Georgia's website, so I replaced the old cite with a new one, which points to the same history resource currently used at Supreme Court of Georgia (U.S. state).  —jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 06:28, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 23 November 2016[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved per WP:SNOW. (WP:NAC) Nohomersryan (talk) 18:40, 25 November 2016 (UTC)


Georgia (U.S. state)Georgia (state) – As Georgia is the only country subdivision named "Georgia", to be consistent with Washington (state) Eric0928Talk 03:00, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

  • Support - While the country of Georgia is technically a "state" in the sovereign nation sense, it's never referred to as the "state of Georgia". A hatnote can take care of any ambiguity, as a hatnote currently does. - BilCat (talk) 03:12, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
It looks as though the article was called "Washington (U.S. state)", until it was moved in January 2011, this article was moved to "Georgia (U.S. state)" from "State of Georgia" in July 2008 ∼∼∼∼ Eric0928Talk 04:23, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose sorry, but the world does not revolve around America. Georgia the country is a state, like it or not. SSTflyer 07:36, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose Georgia, the country is also a state. "Georgia is a state of about 4.7 million people that borders the Black Sea" In ictu oculi (talk) 09:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose Georgia is also a state, so Georgia (state) is highly ambiguous. There are no such problems with Washington (state) since that can only possibly refer to one entity. MrStoofer (talk) 10:01, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose - If we have to disambiguate, we should do so unambiguously. Note that Georgia (state) doesn't redirect here, it redirects to the disambiguation page because it is ambiguous. TDL (talk) 13:05, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose - The current pagename works just fine. It's specific; that's a benefit.--Jim in Georgia Contribs Talk 14:17, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose: per WP:WORLDVIEW. Look at the DAB page state, the term has a number of different meanings. The country Georgia is a sovereign state and referred to as a state (without any qualifier) in many contexts. Ebonelm (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose: I see no benefit from going from more-specific disambiguation to less-specific disambiguation.  —jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 21:39, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • If you think about it, in English, there are a lot of ways to refer to a "soverign state", including country, nation, land, sovereign state, nation state, kingdom, realm, power, republic, confederation, federation. Here is the definition of "state", the second defition is the one we are trying to figure out.
The countries in green use federal systems of government.
    • The country of Georgia is a "state" in this sense: "a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government."
    • The U.S. state of Georgia is a "state" in this sense: "an organized political community or area forming part of a federal republic."
    • The there are many federations that use the term "state" for their sub-national units, including the U.S., Germany, India, Brazil, Nigeria, South Sudan, South Africa, etc. A little more than 2 billion people live in one of these countries, so I don't know how that would be so U.S.-centric, also, even the Georgian language has different words for "state" and "country":
    • State > სახელმწიფო
    • Country > ქვეყანა
    • American State > ამერიკის სახელმწიფო
    • (State of) Georgia > ჯორჯია
    • Georgia (the country, it's official name is simply "Georgia") > საქართველო
    • ∼∼∼∼ Eric0928Talk 22:28, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose - Why would you intentionally make a disambiguation tag more ambiguous? --Khajidha (talk) 00:11, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Again? How is it not clear that this move has been rejected multiple times because the term "state" is ambiguous? kennethaw88talk 06:13, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose, obviously. "State" has multiple meanings, the canonical one is "sovereign state", and the US one is a derived sense (the original US states were sovereign between the end of the American Revolution and the formal founding of the United States). Outside of US English, the country of Georgia is a state, and the US state of Georgia is a division of the US, much as Cornwall and Brittany (despite once being sovereign nation-states) are now part of England and France, respectively, and are not states.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  10:53, 25 November 2016 (UTC)
  • Oppose We're far better off with the unambiguous current title than changing it to a title which is already in use as a DAB. This is looking like a SNOW. Meters (talk) 18:25, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rationale for move request[edit]

First off, the oppose side won 12-1, the main rationale was that this move hadn't been discussed before, and also, another note, that New York was moved from New York (state) to New York, and yet, that contradicts what Jmcgnh's comment was:

In fact, the dab page for "New York" was originally located at "New York", yet, since that one can argue that:

If one were in a discussion to move "New York (state)" to "New York" you could've argued:

In fact, there are a lot of articles for "New York", and yet, we settled on the state.

If Jmcgnh's quote can play into context, then we can argue that Washington (state) should be renamed to "Washington", since that it's easily distinguished from Washington, D.C. by it's suffix, ", D.C.". In fact, I hate calling it "Washington, D.C." because it gives an impression that what is the "City of Washington" is something within the federal district known as the "District of Columbia", which is kind of true, what is the "City of Washington" is really the local government set up by the District of Columbia Home Rule Act, which established a DC council and a mayor's office, and the "District of Columbia" is really the federal district under direct control of Congress of which the "City of Washington" is within.

  • Comment - Comparing New York and Georgia is a comparison of apples to oranges peaches (sorry, had to). Each article is assessed on its own merits, the circumstances around the State of New York are different than the circumstances around the State of Georgia, which are different than the circumstances around the State of Washington. Consistency would be consistently following WP:DAB, not consistently adding the same parenthetical disambiguation just to make it match other articles. This article should consistent with WP:DAB, rather than consistent with Washington (state) or New York. - Aoidh (talk) 22:47, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict):Eric0928 It seems that you are quoting me to represent a point of view I do not share.

I am not comfortable with close calls on primary topic debates. But I intended my remark to apply only to the situation of choosing which of two disambiguations should host an article and which should be a redirect (or dab). In my opinion, those are fairly different.
There are many disputes about primary topics and I don't have a generalized view on how they might be resolved. For the instance you bring up here, my opinion is that it's okay for New York (state) to be the redirect for New York, but no link in Wikipedia should ambiguously link directly to New York, the links should be disambiguated as either New York (state) or New York (city). This is what bd2412 has been working towards as an intermediate step and, as far as I'm concerned, that should be the final step.
I am not a striver for complete WP consistency, though. I generally favor letting a situation that is working well enough stay the way it is and am not in favor of churning things for reasons of consistency or emerging trends in popularity.
So I'm setting myself the assignment of re-reading WP:Disambiguation and related topics, since my understanding says that New York should still be a dab page.  —jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 23:22, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

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Climate, Geography, Demographics, Economy ....[edit]

Why don't these U.S. state articles in Wikipedia include a category for CRIME (and the various crime rates, by demographic breakdown for both the criminals and the victims)? Just as with a college, it would seem an important factor to know about a state for those readers who are contemplating moving there, visiting there, or doing business in that state.Starhistory22 (talk) 10:17, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

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