Talk:German occupation of Norway

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For a May 2005 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/German military occupation of Norway during World War II

Requested move (3)[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was not moved. --BDD (talk) 19:33, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

German occupation of NorwayNorway in World War II – Congruence with other articles e.g.Belgium in World War II, possibility of wider scope for article, as occupation was quasi-totality of events for Norway walk victor falk talk 09:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

  • To clarify: "German occupation of Norway" should redirect to "Norway in World War II". walk victor falk talk 17:53, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

The current title is in line with German occupation of Belgium during World War II. Why change the scope of this article instead of just creating a new, wider article? Be aware we also have Norwegian Armed Forces in exile. In short, I oppose a renaming. Srnec (talk) 14:24, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I disagree. Belgium was under military occupation, Militärverwaltung, together with a part of Northern France: Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France. German occupation of Belgium during World War II deals with the Belgian part of that area. So you have the following hierarchy: "Belgium in WWII" => "Military Administration in Belgium and Northern France" => "German occupation of Belgium in WWII". "German occupation of X" generally refers to military occupation in wikipedia articles. For instance, "German occupation of France during WWII" redirects to Military Administration in France (Nazi Germany).
Norway was under civilian administration, Reichskommissariat, which is detailed in Reichskommissariat Norwegen. This is entirely comparable to the Netherlands, which has Netherlands in World War II and Reichskommissariat Niederlande. "Norwegian Armed Forces in exile" is analogous to Military history of the Netherlands during World War II (and perhaps "Norwegian Armed Forces in exile" hould also be renamed, since almost every country involved has a "Military history of X in WWII" but not Norway). walk victor falk talk 15:23, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Strike that, unless rewitten to fit "Military history of X" format. walk victor falk talk 17:53, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
Norway was under military occupation, if civilian administration. The whole system of articles (on countries and WWII) is a mess I have wanted to fix for a long time. If this article is moved, should the title redirect to Reichskommissariat Norwegen? If not, why not? And shouldn't there be a merge? This move discussion seems premature so long as we have no article on Norway in WWII to occupy that articlespace. Srnec (talk) 17:22, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
The distinction between civilian and military occupation is an issue that came up at the Hostage case at the Nuremberg trials see the section Clarification of military occupation — The ruling was that effective military occupation continues even if a civilian government is placed in administrative control, if the military power can intervene at will. This has since been codified in Geneva IV and later conventions. So Norway was under German occupation during the Second World what ever Quislings did. -- PBS (talk) 12:44, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
"German occupation of Norway" should redirect to "Norway in WWII", a plain swap-around. Damn right it's a mess (blame the typically chaotic nazis for that, so contrary to the stereotype of the "ordnung must sein" German), though things have improved over the few years, like for instance this more or less consistent way of reserving "German occupation" for military administrations. walk victor falk talk 17:53, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
"Norway in WWII" involves much more than the occupation of its territory. For example elements of the the Norwegian navy was involved in Operation Neptune in 1944 and its merchant fleet not captured by the Germans was on the allied side throughout the war. The scope of this article is fine for what it covers. An article on "Norway in WWII" can have a section summering this article and cover other aspects of "Norway in WWII" which are outside the scope of this article. -- PBS (talk) 12:44, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The current title is in keeping with similar articles titled "German occupation of ____". Binksternet (talk) 15:25, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
May I point out that those that are not about areas directly under military German occupation generally are redirects. walk victor falk talk 15:32, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. The current title is the most concise and best description of the summary article scope, which should include everything relating to the German occupation of Norway in WWII, including the Reichskommissariat, and its subordinate functions of military operations, security and civil affairs, as well as the Quisling regime, the resistance etc, which should all have more detailed fork articles. The boundaries of Norway were used as the boundaries of the corresponding German zone of occupation, so there is no more appropriate term to define the area that was occupied. "Belgium and Northern France" is not a good comparison because it was a uniquely defined zone of occupation that did not follow the boundaries of the occupied countries. The Netherlands had a much more similar arrangement to that in place in Norway. The Reichskommissar in Norway was the Reichskommissar für die besetzten norwegischen Gebiete (the Reichskommissar for the occupied Norwegian territories). BTW, Militärverwaltung does not mean military occupation, it means military administration. Military occupation is "militärische Besetzung", usually just "Besetzung" or "Besetzen" depending on the context and grammatical construction. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 04:34, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. User:Peacemaker67 makes a compelling argument. I myself believe that the present naming well suits the breadth of the present article scope. The military v "civil" administration argument is a weak one, IMO. Cheers all Irondome (talk) 05:19, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Peacemaker67 puts it well. And of course Norway was under military occupation, there were close to 400,000 German troops in the country, and those troops were not there as part of any agreement or something like that. A military occupation, plain and simple. Manxruler (talk) 01:20, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose Peacemaker67 sums up a lot of my thoughts. The current title is more accurate than the proposed title. Arsenikk (talk) 12:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
  • Oppose' per Peacemaker67, and my comments above in this section. -- PBS (talk) 12:44, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Denmark & Norway sections in Allies of World War II need expansion[edit]

More detailed information about Denmark and Norway as Allied nations is missing, at Allies of World War II#Denmark and Allies of World War II#Norway. All help in fleshing out these (and other sections in the article as well) much appreciated! walk victor falk talk 16:35, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

You will have to do the work yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:05, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Germans wanted legitimate government to remain in place[edit]

The notion that the Germans during WW2 wanted to rule the world is a falsehood. Hitler never permanently claimed an inch of territory unless it had formerly been part of Germany before Versailles. In support of this assertion, Hitler always allowed the countries occupied by the German military to keep their own governments, as required by international law. When the allies seized Germany they illegally arrested the German Government, which had not surrendered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:39, 27 November 2016 (UTC)