Talk:Gian Lorenzo Bernini

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Older comments[edit]

The story about Borromini's church facade and Bernini's fountain is nice, but in actuality the fountain was built before the facade, so it cannot be true.

Please sign your messages Hornandsoccer 15:36, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Please see the running debate in Michelangelo or for Category:Italian Roman Catholics for my reason to delete the link to this category. It represents a non-neutral agenda.CARAVAGGISTI 13:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Please see my response to Caravaggisti on the Michelangelo talk page. Caravaggisti, it seems, has made the rather absurd argument that my wanting a category designation for Italian Roman Catholics represents a "non-neutral agenda." If calling a spade a spade is a non-neutral agenda, then string me up. -Schlier22 22:38, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Name listed twice[edit]

The lead section of the article says:

Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini (Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini; December 7, 1598November 28, 1680) was a pre-eminent Baroque sculptor and architect of 17th century Rome.

Why list his name twice: "Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini (Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini; ..."? AecisBrievenbus 21:50, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I concur with Aecis. Why is his name written twice?

Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini (Giovanni Lorenzo Bernini; December 7, 1598 – November 28, 1680) was a pre-eminent Baroque sculptor and architect of 17th century Rome.

Constantine Statue Hidden?[edit]

Although I see this repeated all over the internet, clearly traceable to some original source that is being copied over and again, someone needs to substantiate the claim that the Constantine statue at the base of the Scala Regia is in any way hidden. I do not believe it is correct. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Italtrav (talkcontribs) 04:13, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Further reading or bibliography addition (1)[edit]

For consideration in the context of this article. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 12:57, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Lubow, Arthur (October 2008), "Bernini's Genius", Smithsonian, 39 (7), pp. 77–83, ISSN 0037-7333, retrieved 2008-10-26, (subtitle) The Baroque master animated 17th-century Rome with his astonishing sculpture and architecture 

Editing required on section entitled: Mature Sculptural Output[edit]

This section requires editing. For instance, the following sentence, which states: "At the end of April 1665, at the height of his fame and powers..." needs to be polished. I recommend rewording it. Try this: "At the end of April 1665--during the height of his fame and power--he traveled to Paris and remained there until November"

There are a few other spots that could be improved, and I will make some more suggestions when I have some more time to spare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 04:40, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

POV language[edit]

I noticed some serious "POV" issues:

  • "He was the leading sculptor of his age".
  • "with a dramatic naturalistic realism which was almost shocking."
  • "far outshining other sculptors of his generation"

Just in the first few sentences of the lead.... The Rambling Man (talk) 22:02, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

The first one is unquestionable - if not him then who? The other two could be toned down a bit, but he was the dominant sculptor of his period, as any source will tell you. Johnbod (talk) 05:56, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
No, it's not unquestionable, I questioned it. A source is required if someone questions it. You should know that by now. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:15, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Added sources for the "leading sculptor" bit. Even the smallest amount of research shows that this is widely accepted. howcheng {chat} 17:44, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
Glad you made it here to see the state of these articles! Thanks for doing the whole job, and for adding some references from another source in a much under-referenced weak article. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:15, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

More unreferenced hagiography and POV:

  • " at the height of his fame and powers"
  • "which set the standard for royal portraiture for a century"
  • " among Bernini's most gifted creations"
  • "Bernini also revolutionized marble busts, lending glamorous dynamism and animation to the stony stillness of portraiture"
  • "to create a much admired fountain"
  • "In sum, Domenico's biography, though published later than Baldinucci's, represents the earlier and more important full-length biographical source of Bernini's life, even though it may idealize a number of facts."
  • "An oft-repeated, but false, anecdote tells that..."
  • "His most famous portrait is that of "
  • "affectionately known as Bernini's Chick by the Roman people"
  • "Bernini worked along with Ercole Ferrata to create a much admired fountain"
  • "the palace, its great library and the rich art collection"

Is this seriously the sort of article we promote by a bold link in the featured section of the main page? Mostly unreferenced, littered with POV statements... The Rambling Man (talk) 18:22, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I think quite a few of these claims could be referenced in scholarly literature or toned down. A section on the historical reputation of Bernini may also serve to buttress some of the claims made. Will work on it over Christmas. Xcia0069 (talk) 13:00, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
The literature on Bernini is loaded with this kind of over-the-top language, and it should not be very difficult to find sources to cite. But do we really need it to this degree? --Robert.Allen (talk) 05:37, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
I am affraid that Bernini was indeed the leading sculptor of his age, far outshining other sculptors of his generation. Before him it was Michelangelo, but than it was him. One doesn't need to be affraid of big words when it is about a real excellent artist. It's unquestionable because this is exactly the oppinion of most of the art history books, scholarly literature and scholars agree about this.

Hafspajen (talk) 15:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Most of the praise and commentary on Bernini has now been removed or has had citations added so have removed the neutrality label. Xcia0069 (talk) 11:11, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

File:Gian Lorenzo Bernini, self-portrait, c1623.jpg to appear as POTD soon[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Gian Lorenzo Bernini, self-portrait, c1623.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on December 7, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-12-07. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng {chat} 17:44, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Gian Lorenzo Bernini
A self-portrait of Gian Lorenzo Bernini (1598–1680), an Italian artist, architect, and sculptor who is credited with creating the Baroque style of sculpture. He received commissions for sculptures at an early age from Cardinal Scipione Borghese and soon rose to prominence under the patronage of Popes Gregory XV, Urban VIII, and Alexander VII. His artistic pre-eminence meant he was able to secure the most important commission in the Rome of his day, St. Peter's Basilica, as well as the adjoining Piazza San Pietro. He fell from favour in later neoclassical criticism of the Baroque, but art historians in the 19th century and onwards have restored his artistic reputation.

creepy as well as mediocre[edit]

Bernini is also noted for throwing acid into the face of his unfaithful mistress to disfigure her. I have to add that I have never understand how this mediocrity has gone down as a great sculptor. His style is wooden, over-embellished and derivative. The MET recently had a Bernini exchibition, and the one inspiring drawing of the show, was actually done by his intern. Rome would be radically improved by carting all his chatchka to the local cemetary, and replacing them with sculpture by contemporary artists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fancyair (talkcontribs) 16:34, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

A metaphor or a metaphorical device?[edit]

I saw this recent edit to the second paragraph of lede: [1]. I'm all for conciseness, but there may be an important difference between "a metaphor" and "a metaphorical device". An art historian would be the best person to ask about this. CorinneSD (talk) 17:03, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

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