Talk:Giorgio Basta

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Untitled[edit]

"Albanian originated Habsburg general, fought against the Turks, and since 1598 he was the commandant of Kassa. In the fall of 1600 he defeats count Mihai at Miriszló, then on the other years summer together with Mihai V., already, they defeat the third time returned count, Báthory Zsigmond, at Goroszló. He ruled over Transylvania between the years of 1601- 1604, by gaining absolute power from the emperor. During these years he practiced a terrible reign of terror: his soldiers were stilling and killing, and all the regions were depopulating in Transylvania. People got so poor, that they kept themselves into the cart and yoke, this is what being kept by tradition too: on the name of "Basta's cart".

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The notorious emperor's commander was eventually defeated by Bocskai. "

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 16:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Giorgio Basta was Italian[edit]

Giorgio Basta was Italian by birth and origin. It's wrong to describe him as "Austrian" general in the same way it is wrong to write in the section ethnicity "Albanian". He was of partly Arbereshe origin: the Arbereshe are Greco-Albanian communities living in Italy since the end of the Middle Ages, this making them absolutely Italian. It's possible to point out that it was from an Arbereshe village, if anything. But writing down that he was of Albanian ethnicity is ridicously wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.34.173.82 (talk) 01:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Not so fast my friend! Lillzon (talk) 22:55, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Ethnicity issue[edit]

I've just spent half an hour trying to find any sources that name Basta as being Arbëreshe to no avail. The only information available on him is that he was probably either Albanian or Greek. I've tagged the page as being WP:POV. Unless some reliable, verifiable sources can be found on his ethnicity, the Arbëreshe has to go. Thank you. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:24, 16 February 2014 (UTC)

"Figlio dall'albanese Demetrio, condottiero imperiale ma nato in Italia (a Volpiano nel Monferratro e non come erroneamente si è sostenuto, a Roccaforzata presso Taranto ovvero a S. Nicola dell'Alto presso Crotone),"

http://www.tuttostoria.net/%5CDocumenti%5CVolantino_Scrittori_Militari_Italiani_2011.pdf

https://archive.org/stream/ScrittoriMilitariItaliani1285-1799.LettereA-c/ScrittoriMilitariIitalianiA-c_djvu.txt (GO TO PAGE 67)

These roughly translated to "Born from an Albanian called Dmitri, the Imperial Commander was born in Italy (In Volpiano in Monferratro and not from Roccaforzata or S.Nicola dell'Alto, which is an erroneous misunderstanding),"

From these article I've found which states in detail the Albanian origins of Basta. However, it does a conflict between the bibliographic and other accounts that born in those other villages.There is also a source called: Eugenio Barbarich, "Un generale di cavalleria italo-albanese: G. B." This is probably the best secondary source I have, but it pretty much validates that he's Albanian. I've mostly used Italian and Albanian sources since the English ones are, pardon my French, shit.

There's a document I've called Mario De Bartolomeis SAGGI LETTERARI E STORICI that explains the controversy of his birth:

"In an attempt to shed some light on some of the little-known aspects of the life of the Bolognese writer Ciro Spontoni, we have also studied some relationships between them and Alessandro Farnese's general, Giorgio Basta. By checking for this purpose some data on Basta, we found that almost all of his biographical notes contain vague inaccuracies. Since it should be the most accurate and authoritative piece of news concerning the Basta, we have focused our attention on the voice written by Gaspare De Caro for the Italian Biographical Dictionary where it reads: "It was born around 1540 at Rocca, on the land of Otranto , Although a bibliographic tradition wanted him born in Monferrato, in Rocca sul Tanaro [...]. In 1606 he abandoned the service and retired to private life, devoting himself to the elaboration of some military technology treaties [...]; He died around 1612, perhaps in his Troppau feudal home "(2). We would immediately say that if the bibliographic tradition is wrong, this has begun with the Bayle (3), which perhaps following the affirmation of Famiano Strada that says in pagent Tarentini agri natum, wants the Basta precisely born in Rocca (Perhaps today's Roccaforzata) near Taranto. Another erroneous bibliographic tradition is the one that, begun with Schweigerd (4) and subsequently accepted in numerous lexicons, wants Basta born on January 30, 1550. The cutter of the voice for the Italian Biographical Dictionary is limited, however, to a vague statement by Barbarich (5). However, De Caro could have a general picture of the data concerning the much more accurate one from a first consultation of the writings of Mazzucchelli (6). He also noted the work of Crasso (7) in which Basta reads that "the Author of the History of Transylvania writes that he was born in a Casale di Monferrato", De Caro also had the key to approach What we are in the right position to believe is the most informed source of some data regarding the Italian-Albanian general. Let us conclude with the History of Transylvania and its author, which, to demonstrate its credibility, will be brief (8).

Ciro Spontoni was from 1593 to the court of Vincenzo I Gonzaga (1587-1610) who "exercised in many serious business and then led him to the war of Hungary as Foriero" (9). In the land of Magiara he certainly knew the Enough if later he would be able to remind Vincenzo I an episode of that expedition in these terms: "Let me stay at A. V. Sereniss. Particularly what Mr. Conte Basta, with his own eyes, and with the salvation of his person, still has not seen him with his valorous use of weapons "(10). In November 1600 he was elected first Secretary of the Senate of Bologna, which inexplicably left in 1603 For some time you have no news. But on November 26, 1605, he wrote by submitting to the Duke of Mantua a treatise on Basta (12): "Among the favors and the gifts I received from Mr Conte Giorgio Basta while I was detained in his service in Hungary, The gratitude of his master of Field General I esteem the greatest of all [...]; I offer to show her, and not a few months printed, some military reasoning made by Mr Conte Basta with three gentlemen of Italy who had just returned from Possonia in Vienna in the coming summer, and collected by me, who was there. " Page 285 of Historia can also read the Italian version of a letter in Latin written by Prince Bocskai to Emperor Rodolfo II, a letter found in a prisoner's possession and from Basta delivered to the "Spontone Cavaliere; That second, which he judged fit to put it in this narrative, " namely Historia itself.

     It is immediately noticed that De Caro is mistaken even when he says that the General had devoted himself to the elaboration of his military treaties after 1606. In fact, the Basta - as is stated in the presentation of the already-appointed military treaty to the Duke of Mantua - As far as the earth belongs to the cargo of Master Field, briefly wrote General, and with a soldier's pen (though he knows how to use his sword), by gathering the contents from many fragments of scriptures made by him for his particular memory, Since he and his fugitives in Flanders [...] "giving [...] to many of these forms of prayer in Transylvania, five years are in the rooms [...]". From the above it is also concluded that Spontoni had been very close to Basta, and had gone to Hungary to serve the general after abandoning the post of First Secretary of the Senate of Bologna. As Historia is a very detailed description of the Italian - Italian work, it seems doubtful that the Bolognese writer had the task of writing a bias - exalting work of Basta, according to a tradition of the time quite widespread. This conclusion is confirmed by the fact that the general, as we have seen, provided Spontoni news or elements that could contribute to a greater completeness of the work.

We therefore fail to acknowledge the utmost trust in Ciro Spontoni, which, in spite of not having all the guarantees we collected, made Veress, one of the most prominent scholars of Basta (13).

     It reads in History: "Nato Giorgio Basta in Ulpiano in the Monferrato [...] by Demetrius in the year 1547 [...] He was raised in Asti, where he learned from the fourth decade letters of Humanity [...]" (14).
     A place called Ulpiano, at a first examination, seems to not exist at present in Piedmont. However, in the Atlas of the Magini (15) this place is marked with the aforementioned name in Table II, while in Tables III and V (16) it appears as Vulpiano; A sign that at the time when the cartographer prepared the cards prevailed a twofold strong dialectical influence on the real name Volpiano.

Articulate consideration deserves the indication of 1547 as the birth year of Basta. We know that he was dead - and later we will give it documentation - in 1607, and since in History it is written that the general had gone to a better life "[...] in the sixty-third year after his birth [...]" (17) , We can not believe that Spontoni did not know. This is obviously a printing error and the date of 1547 is to be understood as 1544. It will be useful to recall that the work in question of the Bolognese writer was posthumously edited and that the author therefore could not handle the publication. Additionally, the particular handwriting of the Arabic numerals 4 and 7 in use at that time could - as in the case of particularly spooky spontonius (18) - be easily misunderstood. The typographer must therefore have been deceived by committing a mistake that he did not correct in the light of the other statements read in the work. Further confirmation of these deductions comes from Sirtori when in his Oratione he says that the Just had died "[...] when over sixty years had passed the years" (19). It is not our intention to do the story of Basta. Of his own, however, he must remember that his father Demetrius, having to go to fight in Flanders under the command of the Duke of Alba, "[...] by Literali Studij ritoltolo, decided to go with him from whose rigid martial arts profits, Gave the principle; And in a short time he was very strict observer of the rules, and the laws of Militia [...], having had the orders of all the military and bellicose officies, came to the finest culmination of the glorious Generalate [...] under the auspices of Alexander the Duke of Parma Prencipe of ever-living memory "(20). In fact, when he arrived in Flanders, Alessandro immediately understood the specific inclinations of Basta and made one of his closest collaborators. Among other things, he made him responsible for the renewal and restructuring of that cavalry weapon, of which the Italo-Albanian was later the greatest theorist. These reasons contributed to intimately link the Basta to Alexander. And even after the death of these and the passage of the general at the service of Rodolfo II in Hungary, the bond remained intact with Ranuccio I, as evidenced by the rich postcard remaining. From this epistle we transcribe two letters which, in addition to confirming the constant exchange of favors between the two, lead us to consider the pitiful state in which Hungary was reduced - famous in the 300s and 400s for its horses - where at Basta it is impossible to buy a good Skip when he writes."

http://xoomer.virgilio.it/bellelettere1/mariodebartolomeissaggi.htm

The study below (place on cached) states that he was born under a Albanian noble by the name of Dmitri who worked for the duke of Alba in Spain. and he also apparently had a bigger brother too.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:80gJI5cs_kEJ:www.treccani.it/enciclopedia/giorgio-basta_(Dizionario-Biografico)/+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

So basically, I can say that the evidence for him being Arbereshe is not as slim as you may think. But I don't blame you, it too me like two days to find this! XD

Lillzon (talk) 03:45, 15 May 2017 (UTC)