Talk:Golden Dawn (political party)

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Socialist is far left wing, not right wing[edit]

Calling any socialist organization "right wing" is totally factually incorrect and a slander to right wing persons who believe in freedom from government control as opposed to dependence upon the government as in socialism. Any large government in which government is given a great deal of control over the lives of the people and is allowed to interject itself into what would ordinarily be the private lives of the individual citizens, thereby inhibiting the exercise of their freedoms, is LEFT WING. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.92.36.114 (talk) 13:23, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

No, regardless of how often this argument is repeated, it is wrong. The kind of right-wing ideology prevalent in the United States is not the only form of right wing ideology. If National Socialism == Socialism, then the People's Democratic Republic of Korea is clearly a democracy, yes? Your position is not taken seriously be academia. Dolescum (talk) 09:18, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
IP, only fringe sources make that claim. TFD (talk) 04:27, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
Eh, that's the most stupid thing I could every read!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.17.238 (talk) 13:49, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Joseph Goebbles wrote in his diary "When we defeat those Russians, we'll show them how to do real socialism." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.79.7.57 (talk) 01:33, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

In "The Gathering Storm," Winston Churchill wrote "As Fascism sprang from Communism, so Nazism developed from Fascism." Churchill was right more often than not, and ignored -- especially by academia -- more often than not.137.79.7.57 (talk) 02:18, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Giannopoulos represented the party at a gathering in Moscow that is characterized as a "far-right gathering." In Moscow! Really? A "far-right gathering" in Moscow?

Golden Dawn MP Ilias Panagiotaros described Hitler as a "great personality, like Stalin." Claiming that Nazis could not have been socialists because they attacked communists is like claiming lions are not carnivores because they attack hyenas. No, Nazis attacked communists for the same reason lions attack hyenas, not because they are opposites, but because they compete for exactly the same space. Of course, this is not taken seriously by academia, because anything that tarnishes international socialism is not taken seriously by academia. 137.79.7.57 (talk) 02:27, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

It seems to me that the description "Far-right" says much more about the phobias of those in the habit of alleging it than about any palpable feature of Golden Dawn. This is why we encounter so many flimsy retorts such as "that's the most stupid thing" and "only fringe sources" upon challenging the accusation of "Far-right". At any rate, the article has some grave shortcomings. For example, it needs more info about GD's economic and commerce policies.
So, is their alleged "Fascism" in favor of a state accident and insurance company such as that imposed by the Mussolini regime in 1936? Or some other welfare statist health care program? Basically, we need to know if GD wants the state to provide cradle-to-grave support or to coerce ostensibly private providers to do so.
And is GD a pack of Keynesians? Do they prefer commerce to be rigged by government? With government picking winners and losers with stimulus here and stimulus there? Are they central banking ideologues? Does GD want government to rig money markets though manipulation of interest rates? Do they favor inflationary money supply policies?
What's their tax policy? That taxation is theft? Not likely, I think. Neither the Nazis of Germany nor the Fascists of Italy could have tolerated such a position, for they wanted everything for the state, nothing outside the state, and nothing against the state. (Hitler was, however, more eager for nationalized businesses than Mussolini.) The "Far-right" tax policy which follows is that one's every possession is, as in all leftist politics, the property of government, which has the right to tell you how much of its wealth you will be permitted to keep.
50.79.48.1 (talk) 10:37, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Coming into the debate a little late, but I completely agree. How can you seriously have both 'Fascist' and 'Far-right' for the same political party? Its like the editors want to look like idiots on purpose. EEEEEE1 (talk) 11:06, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Literature Section Removal[edit]

Why is there a section listing particular literature, when:

  1. such sections do not exist in the pages of other political parties, and thus there is an inconsistency across such articles,
  2. the literature listed seems to bear a non-right-wing bias and thus is not neutral (see Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view), and
  3. any relevant literature to the article would be cited and thus appear in the references?

I propose that the literature section be removed, and if they are relevant to the article, should be cited where relevant. Otherwise, should contain literature that restores the neutrality of the article.

Answer:

  1. Some political parties' articles do have a literature section and some don't. This is not the only one. About some parties a lot of literature is published and about some none.
  2. You merely claim that these texts were biased. What makes you think so? To me they look reputable.
  3. Right. The section should rather be called "further reading", because the references contain literature, too. --RJFF (talk) 22:16, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Ideology misdescribed[edit]

Wikipedia current described Golden Dawn as "Ultranationalism, Neo-Nazism, Fascism and Metaxism". These cannot all be right - if only because they are mutually exclusive. The label ultranationalism is certainly correct, and possibly Metaxism. But it is neither neo-Nazi nor Fascist: Its ideology is neither Nazi nor Fascist, and it denies those labels. Those labels are apparently therefore being used in a purely pejorative sense, and not because of the party's policies. Wikipedia should not be used for left wing attacks on parties which they disagree with - this is the equivalent of calling all socialist parties communist.Royalcourtier (talk) 08:25, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

But that's how the sources available in the article characterize this party. In Greek wiki, the ideology is also marked as Neo-Nazi and Fascist. And just a cursory look at their flag tells where their loyalties lie. --Dorpater (talk) 13:21, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
I think the best description is "far right", which is the political family to which all these ideologies belong. Far right parties typically do not have ideological consistency. TFD (talk) 17:22, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Golden Dawn (political party). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:43, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 10 external links on Golden Dawn (political party). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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N Archived sources still need to be checked

Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 10:07, 13 February 2016 (UTC)