Talk:Golden Dawn (political party)

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Euroscepticism in infobox[edit]

@Sideshow Bob:, Euroscepticism is not a political ideology, it is political doctrine. The fact information is sourced is of no consequence if the information is irrelevant as in this case. Please stop reverting this into the infobox. Thanks. 86.147.16.15 (talk) 19:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Agree. TFD (talk) 21:00, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Eurosceptisicm is a political position. It is noted as ideology (ideological element) to all parties of European countries that oppose European Union. Golden Dawn is also a political party who opposing European Union. So, it must been noticed as element of its ideology to the infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.242.96.177 (talkcontribs) 20:23, 22 March 2016

An ideology "is a collection of doctrines or beliefs." [My emphasis.] Single elements are not collections. TFD (talk) 04:23, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
I agree with IP 86... and TFD. Moreover, far-right ultranationalist parties are by definition always Eurosceptic and anti-globalist, so this is redundant. The doctrines of being against European integration and globalisation are part of and necessarily implied by their nationalistic ideology. --RJFF (talk) 14:05, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

RJFF, you may assume as "redundant" the tags about euroscepticism and anti-globalism at Golden Dawn's ideology's infobox, but you cannot reject them from it. At all eurosceptic and anti-globalist parties of Europe (from all political positions) euroscepticism and anti-globalism are tagged to their ideology's wiki infobox. So, it cannot been exception for Golden Dawn. Golden Dawn is also a eurosceptic and anti-globalist party and these tags must been permited to it's ideology's infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspirduser (talkcontribs) 11:12, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

This is an "other stuff exists" argument. What happens on other pages is no reason to do anything on this page. 87.113.192.113 (talk) 02:48, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
Often when there are single issue parties without ideologies, such as the Marijuana Party, most writers will describe them by that one policy, especially if the party has members from across the political spectrum. Some parties were created as broad coalitions to oppose EU membership, so "Eurosceptic" would have been appropriate for them. But Golden Dawn does not invite Communists and other Eurosceptics not on the left to join in a common purpose of leaving the EU. TFD (talk) 12:55, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

87.113.192.113, this is not something that happens "generally". Euroscepticism and Anti-Globalism are putted to all eurosceptic and anti-globalist parties respectively, to their ideology's infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspirduser (talkcontribs) 13:53, 28 April 2016 (UTC)

The Four Deuces, I believe that your thought is wrong. It has not to do only with big tend eurosceptic parties, or with parties/coallitions based on multipolitical positions EU-opposed, anti-EU fronts (or generally anti-EU front's logic) etc. Euroscepticism or Anti-globalism are also putted at totally right-wing, left-wing, centrist, far-right or far-left etc parties which are eurosceptics or anti-globalist parties (either national parties or european parties, in Greece, Europe and all over the world) and that they are not believe at a multipolitical front on the same purpose.

It is exactly, the same thing like the cases of pro-Europeanism, alter-globalization etc. Pro-Europeanism or alter-globalization for example, are also putted at poltical parties' ideology's infobox when they support them. Either at national parties, european parties, international parties etc, either at big-tend parties or totally right-wing parties, left-wing parties, centre-right parties, centre-left parties etc, either in Greece or in other countries.

So, it cannot been exception for Golden Dawn because it is exactly the same case with other eurosceptic or anti-globalist parties (also tottaly far-right or left-wing etc). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspirduser (talkcontribs) 14:26, 28 April 2016 (UTC)


Sir. I tell you again that euroscepticism or anti-globalism are part's of idelogies of eurosceptic or anti-globalist parties. Please stop trying to expel them from ideology's infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspirduser (talkcontribs) 15:06, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

All your arguments are just restating claims that have already been addressed by other editors above. Please accept that there is no consensus to include this material and desist from repeatedly adding it to the article. 87.113.192.113 (talk) 22:27, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Whether or not they are parts of ideologies, they are not ideologies themselves. I imagine that Golden Dawn have other policies in their platform and the info-box is not the place to list all of them. TFD (talk) 22:55, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

87.113.192.113, I have read only personal views about rejection of euroscepticim and anti-globalism, but not actually a proved reason. I stand again at your claim about " "other stuff exists" arguement", and i tell you that it has not to do about "what happend to other pages", but about you it cannot been rejected an ideology from a political party wich beleive in that.

It has not to do with a vote, to speak about..."consensus". It has to do with the reality and about what it is valid.

Now, I will response also to TFD and to anyone other who assumes euroscepticim and anti-globalism as "redundant" at GD ideology's infobox. Eurosceptisim or anti-globalism are not political platforms, they are also ideologies. Idelogies are not only the "current" - "classical" mainly known ideologies. Ideologies are also collections of doctrines or beliefs based on views about global or local political or social subjects. About that reason, ideologies are ont only ideologies like nationalism or communism or libralism. Ideologies are also pro-europeanism, pro-globalism, alter-globalization, anti-imperialism, anti-capitalism, anti-communism, anti-fascism, third position, anti-immigration, pro-immigration, pro-LGBT rights, anti-prohibitionism, green politics (not only enviromentalism), religions' interrrest categories and of course euroscepticism and anti-globalism. If ideologies were only the "current" - "classical" mainly known ideologies, neo-nazism should not applied as ideology.

(talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:09, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

No reliable sources agree with you. There are Labour and Conservatives campaigning to get the UK out of Europe while their party colleagues are campaigning to keep the UK in. Does it make sense to you that the first group have the same ideology as Golden Dawn? However, their respective ideologies provides a reason for their views. As extreme nationalists, Golden Dawn object to foreigners telling them what to do and letting in racially undesirable people. To left-wing opponents of the EU, it is seen as an instrument of capitalism, to libertarians it is seen as providing needless bureacracy. TFD (talk) 22:33, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
The cases you refer about politicians during UK vote, are individual views of polticians into their parties but not their parties. There can be a eurosceptic politician into a non eurosceptic party, as exactly it can be a nationalist, a commounist, a far-right or a far-left into a centrist political party.

Yes, Golden Dawn or a far left party can be eurosceptic as exactly a centrist politician. As it can be anti-capitalist a communist party, a national-socialist party or a right-wing populist politician. You are wrong about euroscepticism between extreme nationalist and extreme left. Of course for nationalists/ultranalionalists euroscepticism is also a reason about migrant politics, bat for many nationalists/ultranantionalists it is also a reason about other EU politicies into their countries (politics of austerity as example), about foreign policy of EU, and many other reasons that they are in common between different cases. Inspirduser (talk 14:50, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

There are left-wing parties in Greece that oppose the EU. You are correct that Golden Dawn opposes the EU for ethnic nationalist reasons while left eurosceptics oppose it for economic reasons. In other words, both groups adopt the same policy but base it on different ideologies. TFD (talk) 17:01, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Dear friends, there is something new at euroscepticism's wiki-page, based on source:

The term euroscepticism can also refer to the ideology of eurosceptic movements.

I think that euroscepticism could be puted at ideology's infobox. Inspirduser (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:52, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

After not disagreements, euroscepticism has putted in infobox, based on euroscepticism's wiki-page about ideology. Inspirduser (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Ideology[edit]

This is getting ridiculous. The ideology section changes every day. I think an admin who is uninvolved with the article needs to mediate. --Donenne (talk) 18:23, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

can someone fix my edit on ideogolgy infobox metaxist[edit]

help? 192.44.242.19 (talk) 12:01, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

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Golden Dawn's symbol[edit]

I know this has already been discussed but the phrase comparing Golden Dawn's meander and the NSDAP's swastika is often modified/"vandalized". Looking at it objectively,

  • it should be evident that the meander itself is a symbol used in Greek art, from the ancient times up until now where it can even be found in the Greek parliament, however,
  • it should also be evident that the colors used (red background, black meander, surrounded by a white line) are the same as those used in the German flag during the Third Reich (red background, black swastika, surrounded by a white circle).

Therefore we should reformulate the concerned sentence in this way: "Likewise, the Golden Dawn's meander symbol, while a symbol drawn from Greek art (which the party sees as representing bravery and eternal struggle)[22][136] uses the same colors as Hitler's NSDAP flag: a red background, a black meander (respectively swastika) and a white surrounding."

What say you? Orgyn (talk) 11:20, 17 January 2017 (UTC)