Talk:Goliath tracked mine

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Beetle tank[edit]

Can someone please verify that the Goliath is actually the same as the Beetle tank with a citation? Thanks! Tntdj (talk) 18:52, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Uncited D-Day addition[edit]

A few were also seen on the beaches of Normandy during D-Day, though inoperative because the command cables were cut by the artillery barrages. At first their purpose was not wholly clear to the GIs, until one of them dropped a grenade into one and killed him and a dozen of his fellow soldiers.

"Though inoperative" means what—they all were rendered inoperative on the way to their targets? Were the Goliaths sitting out with their cables extended during the pre-assault barrage, or was artillery brought to bear on them? Does GIs imply they were only used on the U.S. landing beaches? Does "killed him" refer to killing the Goliath, or does that mean a GI "killed himself" and a dozen of his comrades, and how did the grenade get inside the armoured Goliath?

Please provide a citation and clear up the ambiguity. Michael Z. 2006-08-14 05:29 Z

3D renderings[edit]

Several 3D renderings and a model made with BRL-CAD are available here.

Warsaw Uprising?[edit]

Goliaths were used most notoriously in the Warsaw Uprising of 1944, as Wehrmacht and SS units were deployed to crush fierce Polish resistance by the Polish Home Army (Armia Krajowa). As the Poles had only a small number of antitank weapons, volunteers were often sent to cut off the command cables of the Goliath before it reached its intended target.

One, I challenge the "most notoriously". Actually I could not find references to this "notorious" use that weren't back-references to this WP article; neither the German nor the English article of the uprising makes any mention of Goliaths. Note that I don't challenge the use of Goliaths in Warsaw, just its "notoriosity" (e.g. when compared to other, heavier weaponry employed), and the amount of weight given to the uprising in the article.

Two, I challenge the necessity, and indeed effectivity, of "antitank weapons" (Bazooka? AT gun?) against a moving target of about 85x60cm. The ideal weapon against a Goliath would probably be an anti-tank rifle...

I'd like to see some sources (other than the "Kanal" dramatic re-enactment), or alternatively recommend cutting back that paragraph to "Goliaths were also deployed against the Polish resistance during the Warsaw Uprising 1944", full stop. -- DevSolar (talk) 11:53, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

"tracked mine" name?[edit]

What's the source for this? I can find none, and no German source for any phrase that translates to anything near. The British equivalent, the Mobile Land Mine, does have a similar name, but that's quite a different device. Is this a just a wikineologism? Andy Dingley (talk) 09:59, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Article was probably created under this name and this was never changed. Suggestions for better name ? --Denniss (talk) 11:43, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Springer (tank) has much the same problem.
I'd be happy with "Goliath demolition vehicle" or "Goliath charge carrier" (from Ladungsträger). I don't like "explosive tank" as that is a mis-translation of sprengpanzer. The Americans did call Goliaths "tanks" though, at least in public newsreels [1] - also doodlebugs. There's no indication (as claimed in the article) that is was ever called the "Beetle", that would be the British equivalent. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:54, 6 April 2017 (UTC)