Talk:Goshen College

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References[edit]

  • References: I updated the references, but can't figure out why the numbering within the text starts wtih #2. Is something wrong with the large template? Can someone help? JonHarder 00:53, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
The first reference is within the Infobox (the endowment), which, linearly, comes before the main text of the article. I doubt there's any way around it, since the placement of the infobox is dependent upon being listed first. Matt B. 08:59, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Goshen College "Things to Do"[edit]

I would really like someone to add more about classes, current history, and major accomplishments.

I would also like someone to add some more neutral language in the article, perhaps any criticism? Don't forget to include the alma mater though.

-Several Media outlets: including: The Record, GC Journal -Talk about the $12.5 million Lilly Grant given to the college over 5 years to help study the effects of minorities in small-town America.Hochstetler51 18:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

how does one add the GPS coordinates as found on major university sites in the top right-hand corner? Hochstetler51 01:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Heads up that in two weeks, if no one objects, I'm going to edit the Campus Facilities portion rather heavily. The constant mentions of how much buildings cost, etc. seem unnecessary and are not found on other college pages I've visited. Corellian475 (talk) 21:41, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Word Choice[edit]

In the following sentence taken from the article, I support changing the word "conducted" to managed or led or some other verb that offers greater clarity in this instance.

"H.A. Mumaw, a practicing physician, first conducted the small operation."

Actually, it may be better to reword the sentence as follows: "H.A. Mumaw, a practicing physician, led the small outfit during its early years."

The whole paragraph could use some minor rewording/rewording.

DivusFilius 20:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


Controversies[edit]

I think the whole section on Controversies is a bit, may I say it, controversial? It looks like word choice here is slanted. For instance, can we have some evidence of the controversy between the college and MCUSA? It seems to paint Goshen as a liberal party place. Rawgreenbean 17:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur. I think that this section should be stricken from the article or incorporated in a more neutral way. DivusFilius 18:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I would like to "temper" the arguement, however I do think that a good article includes problems. It's something I am continuing to think about: I don't want this article to be merely an advertisement, but by only promoting the college is not genuine. On the flip side, is any other college article on Wikipedia discussing controversy? Perhaps we can relabel it Recent Events? True, there should be conrete evidence regarding the controversy section. I still think we should have some sort of section resembling it? Any suggestions? Hochstetler51 00:56, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

I challenge whoever added the topic relating to the current controversy article, and ask that they please read the site concerning controversial guidelines within this dialouge. If we decide to keep these in, we will add this later, but I don't want people simply posting opinions on the Goshen College website, as it discredits it as a source, and mocks those that have spent hours trying to improve Wikipedia. Until I get some feedback, I'm hiding the controversy text, as I had done with the previous text that still needs to be discussed.Hochstetler51 21:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The discussions in the hidden section "Controversies" really don't appear to add much to the overall knowledge base on Goshen College. I don't think it rises much above a short term dispute that got aired in the local newspaper. I would bet that any large university has these on a regular basis. However, Goshen College has been involved in an ongoing national dispute. A few years ago, the college as a matter of policy, refused to play the "Star Spangled Banner" prior to athletic competitions, due to the song's militaristic nature being in conflict with the Mennonite pacifist credo. Any problem with me researching this and adding a new "Controversies" section?Gtwfan52 (talk) 05:43, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Copyright Violation?[edit]

Jon Harder apparently removed a sizable body of text from the article due to a "copyright violation." While this may be true, it would be a shame to lose all that information. Perhaps it can be added back into the article in a legal fashion. I don't have the time for this, so here is the removed text (Pyroponce 06:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)):

[Replacing copyvio text with location:] http://www.goshen.edu/aboutgc/history.php
I've replaced the copied text with the URL that contains it. Text copied to either the main page or here requires permission from the copyright holder. The edit on the main page was made from a Goshen College IP address, which also brings up the question of conflict of interest. JonHarder 13:40, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Jon, good job catching the copyright violation. As for the conflict of interest, unless we can ascertain or have reason to believe that the edits were coming from a faculty or administrative source, I don't think we should be too concerned. I'm not convinced that students are sufficiently close to the college to constitute a conflict of interest per se. Those who are somewhat close to a subject are the ones who are the most informed about it. Roman Catholics contribute to the Catholicism articles, Mennonites contribute to the Mennonite articles, and college students contribute to articles about their colleges. While the relationship is close, it doesn't appear to constitute a relationship that would be "too close" as with Engels and Marx. Please consider this when evaluating the potential conflict of interest. Keep in mind also that GC provides wireless internet access on its campus that is accessible to those without a college account. Anyone posting to this article using one of these wireless access points would be using a GC IP. DivusFilius 14:46, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't have a problem with Goshen College people editing here and recognize that most contributors probably have some kind of association to the school. But this one was over the top. JonHarder 16:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Pictures taken from Goshen's website have been approved by Goshen's PR for use, but still need to be tagged appropriately.Hochstetler51 18:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Spiritual Life[edit]

Should spiritual life get its own heading in the Goshen article, or should it fall in line with Student Life? Many of these groups could go under several differnt headings, for example, the school nickname and colors could go under traditions and trivia? Any suggestions? Hochstetler51 16:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

New Seal[edit]

We need to put up the new seal of the college. After looking at some other campuses, its clear that what was up previously was a logo, which has been moved to the logo section of the textbox. However, I was only able to find the old seal, which will have to do until a new one is found. Hochstetler51 07:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Fixed. Hochstetler51 14:25, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The seal under the section "College Seal" and listing 1950-2005 is actually a re-design of the original which happened sometime in the late '90s. Can someone come up with the original? And get the correct date for this design? Galen13 18:41, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Representation[edit]

As a current student of Goshen College, I am struck by our wikipedia page. Someone has invested a lot of time into it since the last time I checked (about a year ago, I would say) and has added loads of new information and pictures. Well done. But it's also apparent that this effort has the calculated goal of selling the college, not just presenting the 'neutral' facts of Goshen. It reads like an ad, which first of all is a breach of Wikipedia ethics and also makes me (and hopefully other readers) cringe. The first point is more important. Any thoughts on this?

This is the wiki scanner page for edits from the college's IP range - this would pick up any edits made from oncampus computer. There are a lot of edits on the Goshen Collge page. http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/f.php?ip1=199.8.232.0-239.255 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vanity.fair.47 (talkcontribs) 13:55, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Your concerns have been noted. I believe, however, that the unique and defining characteristics of an entity are those deserving of mention. If they are an honest and accurate reflection of that entity, then they should stand, regardless of their reflecting positively on the entity. If you believe that the representations here are false or misleading, please bring them to our attention. We value your input. Please be mindful to point to facts rather than making conclusory allegations. DivusFilius 23:14, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

All the facts are correct but it reads like a brochure. Thanks for valuing my input. Vanity.fair.47 09:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Concern about neutrality is noted, however may I add any changes made should be discussed in detail on the talk page, so this article can represent the views on campus. Goshen needs a comprehensive "to do" list to add to the growing number of articles about the college. For examples, it is best to look at other university or college articles to see how this article compares. 199.8.234.44 18:56, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Plagiarized materials[edit]

Doing some random research, and portions of the "Satellite Facilities" section are plagiarized. For example, check out the text here: http://www.goshenflorida.com/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.205.4.49 (talk) 00:24, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

I removed the copied material. JonHarder talk 01:39, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
Resolved

National Anthem controversy[edit]

I have written a bit about the controversy surrounding the playing of the national anthem at athletic events that transpired in 2010-2011. I will be inserting it at the end of the History section in a few days. I invite anyone to look at it in my sandbox and comment on it on my talk page. Thanks Gtwfan52 (talk) 06:40, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Goshen College/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

B although quality is improving, footnotes and other parts of the article are still not quite complete High Goshen College has significantly impacted Northern Indiana, through its alumni (mayors of Goshen, South Bend), religious heritage (center of Mennonite life), and value as an institution of learning.

Last edited at 05:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 16:32, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Significant work needed[edit]

I have marked this article to indicate a need for more citations, as many of the assertions made in the article are unreferenced. It could also use an editors touch. Much of it reads like a copy and paste from the admissions office brochure which is quite surprising given that at one time this article had achieved a rating of "B", which it certainly no longer deserves. If I have time, I will try to make some improvements, but would welcome some help in that regards. Jsniessen (talk) 13:52, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

I have rated this article as a "C" class. This article needs significant improvement to return it to a "B" class rating. There are currently far too many unreferenced assertions and the tone also needs to be less promotional and more encyclopedic in nature. I will continue to slowly improve it, but welcome interested, knowledgable party's assistance. Jsniessen (talk) 16:47, 15 August 2016 (UTC)