Talk:Greater London

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edit·history·watch·refresh Stock post message.svg To-do list for Greater London:
  • Improve History section
  • Copyedit to give this article clear purpose in relation to the London article
  • Explain how powers and responsibilities are split between CoL, GLA, LA, ALG and London boroughs
  • Improve presentation of data and statistics
  • Extend the article's lead section

Population, etc.[edit]

I'm concerned we may have been conflating the ceremonial county and administrative areas in presentation of statistics. This is what I think we should be using for 2011. I'm putting it here in the hope someone could double check it for me.

Statistic City of London Greater London cc Greater London aa
Area 2.90 km2 1,569 km2 1,572 km2
Population 7,400 8,196,700 8,204,100
Density 2,500 /km2 5,223 /km2 5,218 /km2

The 'administrative area' population and area should be larger than that of the 'ceremonial county', by the amount of the City of London. MRSC (talk) 08:57, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

The infobox has turned into an awful fudge. Really unclear what it is trying to show. Perhaps a bespoke one is needed or some changes to the {{infobox English county}} to accommodate it. MRSC (talk) 14:58, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes. The infobox needs to allow the 'County' heading to be modified. It doesn't make sense having a fixed value when ceremonial countries across the country have additional administrative areas with various names such as 'unitary authority', 'metropolitan county', etc. In this case, we need to add 'Region' too. As for the rest of the infobox, the syntax is messy, but I think it relatively clearly distinguishes the region, administrative area, and ceremonial county. Do you have any other concerns other then the 'County' heading? Rob (talk | contribs) 15:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

It is very difficult to track down where the Population figure for the ceremonial county is held. It took a while, but I located it in Template:English_cerem_counties, which I've just updated to mid-2014 ONS data. Batternut (talk) 12:17, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Administrative area and region[edit]

Is there any evidence that the Greater London administrative area is actually a county-level administrative area covering the two ceremonial counties (Greater London and the City of London)? For example, there are other ceremonial counties with no administrative county, eg Bedfordshire and Cheshire. The Greater London administrative area has been designated as a region of England: the London region. The Greater London Authority was created in 1998, so why isn't it regarded simply as a regional authority?

no part of Greater London shall form part of any government administrative county, county district or parish.
–London Government Act 1963
The area comprising the areas of the London boroughs, the City and the Temples shall constitute an administrative area to be known as Greater London.
–London Government Act 1963

There is no reference in the Greater London Authority Act 1999 to the "administrative area".

After 1963, Greater London was sui generis administrative area covering two ceremonial counties and their 33 districts. However, since then Greater London has been defined as an official region of England and therefore no longer sui generis.

Also note that the Greater London Authority was created at the same time as the regional assemblies, although in separate legislation, and the London Development Agency (established by the Regional Development Agencies Act 1998) was part of the Greater London Authority.

“the London Development Agency” means the regional development agency established for the London region.
–Greater London Authority Act 1999

All of this makes me think we are over complicating things by distinguishing the Greater London administrative area from the London region. ie, the Greater London administrative area was simply the name for the area before it was defined as a region, with the region being also referred to as "Greater London".

Thoughts?

Rob984 (talk) 10:31, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

To be clear on what I'm proposing, I would change:

Greater London, or the London region, also forms an administrative area and region of England consisting of...

to

Greater London, or the London region, also forms a region of England used for administrative purposes consisting of...

As well as any related statements here or at London.

Rob984 (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Seems OK to me. The original citation on the London page that back the administrative area claim was Elcock, Howard (1994). Local Government: Policy and Management in Local Authorities. Routledge. p. 368. ISBN 978-0-415-10167-7.  was first published in 1982, pre-GLS. now, perhaps in the revised version, it doesn't mention any "administrative area" (at least when searching with Google books). Batternut (talk) 13:46, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
One word of caution: the region is not called Greater London, but simply London. In infoboxes etc it should continue to be "Region: London". Argovian (talk) 16:31, 10 July 2015 (UTC)