Talk:Greece

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Religion[edit]

Someone with the time or inclination might want to un-weaselword the section on religion, which combines the ridiculous "97% Orthodox" figure and selectively quotes only the percentage of believers on the eurostat survey (along with some subjective "wow! most religious people of europe!" crap. how about cyprus?). I'd also like to know when the US State Department made a gallup on religious beliefs in Greece in order for the ridiculous "97%" figure which moreover is described as "people who SELF IDENTIFY as Greek Orthodox". This number is bunk.

Turks of Western Thrace[edit]

General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace (1912-1920)
Census/Estimate Muslims Pomaks Bulgarians Greeks Others Total
1912 estimate 120,000 - 40,000 60,000 4,000 224,000
1919 Bulgarian 79,539 17,369 87,941 28,647 10,922 224,418
1919 Bulgarian 77,726 20,309 81,457 32,553 8,435 220,480
1920 French 74,730 11,848 54,092 56,114 7,906 204,690
1920 Greek 93,273 - 25,677 74,416 6,038 201,404


During Ottoman rule before 1912, Greeks constituted a minority in the region of Western Thrace.[1] After the Balkan Wars and World War I the demography of the region was changed. While groups such as the Turks and Bulgarians decreased, the Greek population increased by the resettlement of ten thousands of Greek refugees from other areas of the Ottoman Empire, after the flight of the Greek refugees from Asia Minor, as a result of the Greco-Turkish War (1919-1922) and the subsequent population exchange between Greece and Turkey.[2] Of all Greek Asia Minor refugees (578,824 individuals), 31% of them were resettled in Western Thrace.[3] The Greek government's reason to settle the refugees in this region was to strengthen the Greek presence in the newly acquired provinces and the homogenization of the population.[3] The Greek government especially resettled the refugees in Komotini, Xanthi and Sapes regions where the majority of Muslim Turks lived.[3]

General Distribution of Population in Western Thrace in 1923, presented by the Greek delegation in Laussane (after the relocation of Asia Minor refugees)[3]
Districts Total Total Greeks Local Greeks Relocated Greek refugees Turks Bulgarians Jews Armenians
Komotini 104,108 45,516 11,386 33,770 50,081 6,609 1,112 1,183
Alexandroupolis 38,553 26,856 9,228 17,518 2,705 9,102 -
Soufli 32,299 25,758 11,517 14,211 5,454 1,117 - -
Xanthi 64,744 36,859 18,249 18,613 27,882 - -
Didymoteicho 34,621 31,408 21,759 9,649 3,213 - - -
Orestiada 39,386 33,764 22,087 11,677 6,072 - - -
Total 314,235 199,664 (63,5%) 94,226 (30,0%) 105,438 (33,6%) 95,407 (30,4%) 16,828 (5,4%) 1,112 (0,4%) 1,183 (0,4%)

References

  1. ^ Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easternmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. pp. 121–122. Retrieved 2 May 2013. 
  2. ^ Pentzopoulos, Dimitri (2002). The Balkan exchange of minorities and its impact on Greece ([2. impr.]. ed.). London: Hurst. p. 11. ISBN 9781850657026. led directly to the flight of the Greek refugges from Asia Minor, the compulsory exchange of populations between Greece and Turkey 
  3. ^ a b c d Huseyinoglu, Ali (2012). "The Development of Minority Education at the South-easte rnmost Corner of the EU: The Case of Muslim Turks in Western Thrace, Greece" (PDF). University of Sussex. p. 123. Retrieved 2 May 2013. 

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Edit-warring over economy figures[edit]

Warning both to ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ (talk · contribs) and to the IP user most recently at 2A02:1388:2095:5C70:2846:ED4E:6B7D:40BD (talk · contribs · WHOIS): Stop edit-warring, come to the talkpage and explain what you are doing. Any further reverts not preceded by a serious attempt at consensus-building (i.e. explaining your edit first and waiting for an answer, before any further edits) will be met with immediate blocks. Fut.Perf. 08:00, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

The numbers that the IP user has repeatedly inserted were first introduced by an edit in December 2016 with edit summary "2017 estimates" and no source. Since then the same numbers have been reintroduced again and again, sometimes with edit summarys like "its the imf figures so they are correct the sourcing needs correction, so you can do that instead of deleting the whole thing", "these are 2017 IMF estimates. Just like 2016 estimates, but more accurate since they are for 2017", but never giving a source.
The source that is used for the 2016 numbers is the official IMF estimates. They are regularly updated, and the current version is "World Economic Outlook Database, April 2017". In this source there are also numbers for 2017, but they are marked with shaded cells and the explanation "Shaded cells indicate IMF staff estimates". That means that these estimates are preliminary and not yet officialy finalized. They look nothing like the numbers from the IP. However, doing som detective work, I have managed to find the source for the IP numbers. It turns out that they are from the earlier version "World Economic Outlook Database, October 2016". In this version, both the 2016 and the 2017 numbers were preliminary "IMF staff estimates".
Since the "IMF staff estimates" at times seem to differ considerably from the finalized report, it will be best not to use the numbers before the cells are unshaded. The current version with 2016 numbers will then stand for some more time. --T*U (talk) 06:57, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for getting to the bottom of this. Fut.Perf. 07:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Precisely my reasoning, T*U. Not only was the IP user reverting to the preliminary 2017 estimates rather than the final 2016 figures (without even bothering to amend the IMF link accordingly), but he was also using the older data from October—despite the fact that the new data have been available for weeks now. But thanks for the warning, Fut.Perf. Do we really have to sit down and negotiate the basics with anonymous newcomers who clearly have no idea what they're doing? ΘΕΟΔΩΡΟΣ 13:38, 2 May 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, sorry for being a bit blunt with my warning, Theodoros, but indeed, from your edits it was simply not obvious to an outside observer why you were doing those reverts. It might have been a legitimate difference of opinion, or the IP editor might have been right; there was no way of telling unless somebody went to the trouble of checking all those sources in detail. In such cases, the minimum thing to do is really to leave clear and informative edit summaries. Fut.Perf. 13:52, 2 May 2017 (UTC)