Talk:Greek legislative election, September 2015

Sortability of the Opinion Polls Table

The Table of the Opinion Polls is no longer sortable. But its sortability has certain advantages. For example:
(1) Comparing the opinion polls of the same company
(2) Calculating the minimum and the maximum percentage of each party over all opinion polls
(3) Finding out in which opinion poll the absolute difference between the two leading parties was the minimum.
RegardsSoSivr (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Further Polls

http://www.electograph.com/p/special-greek-legislative-election-20.html --77.6.245.34 (talk) 22:09, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

11 Sep -- ProRata: Transformation of the values is still not correct!

1nd: The sum total of the values within the line at issue of the wikipedia table is 97.5 % (not about 100 % as it should be).

2rd: The individual values are incorrect as well (e.g. for SYRIZA it must be 34.5; not 30 %). The correct recalculation is there:

http://theoriealspraxis.blogsport.de/images/EfSynUmfrage_20150911__1238.png / http://theoriealspraxis.blogsport.de/2015/09/11/neue-umfrage-in-griechenland-sowohl-lae-als-auch-anel-um-3-nur-schwache-verlust-fuer-syriza/

and there:

http://www.electograph.com/2015/09/greece-september-2015-prorata-poll.html --95.119.34.21 (talk) 14:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC) / Updated --95.119.34.21 (talk) 16:33, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

For doing the calculation correctly cfr. next section. --95.119.34.21 (talk) 16:33, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

How to recalculate the raw data?

Correct is:

Raw value of an individual party x 100 : sum total of the raw data of all parties together.

Use LibreOffice Calc or MS Office Excel and everything is fine. :-) --95.119.34.21 (talk) 15:00, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Voice news

Voice news "polls" seem weird. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apo-p (talk • contribs) 14:06, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

New Pulse Polls

Pulse (4)

http://www.electograph.com/2015/09/greece-september-2015-pulse-rc-poll-4.html

Pulse (3) --95.119.63.125 (talk) 20:37, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

http://www.electograph.com/2015/09/greece-september-2015-pulse-rc-poll-3.html --95.119.227.67 (talk) 00:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Proposal for new section "2.4 In-depth-analyses"

Maybe a new section "2.4 In-depth-analyses" should be inserted. There e.g. is an analysis of the exchange of electorate between the parties.

More questions than only party preferences are explored e.g. there (in Greek):

http://www.megatv.com/megagegonota/article.asp?catid=27371&subid=2&pubid=35098943

and there (in Greek):

http://www.topontiki.gr/article/141361/dimoskopisi-tis-pulse-rc-gia-pontikigr-eimaste-mono-stin-arhi

and there (in English):

http://www.bridgingeurope.net/nationwide-poll-towards-snap-elections-in-greece---september-4-2015.html --95.119.227.67 (talk) 07:39, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Link-mistake / missing source

4 Sep - VoiceNews and 2 Sep - VoiceNews: Both lines link to same source --77.6.228.74 (talk) 18:15, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Two new polls, published on Friday, 4th

Bridging Europe: http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/983513.umfrage-sieht-syriza-deutlich-vorn.html

Metron Analysis: http://www.ekathimerini.com/201200/article/ekathimerini/news/new-democracy-pulls-ahead-of-syriza-opinion-poll-finds --77.6.228.74 (talk) 15:18, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Calculation of the table is not correct (at least line 2, 3 and 4)

At least the lines 2, 3 and 4 are not correct:

++ 4 Sep -- VoiceNews does not mention others, but the sum of the values, which are mentioned it only 98,5 %. Therefore the raw value for the other parties should be 1.5 % and the entire line must be calculated again.

++ 1–2 Sep -- Pulse RC: There are some small mistakes.

++ 31 Aug–2 Sep -- GPO: The value for the other parties is to high. It confuses the Others alone with the sum of Blanks, Invalids and Others. The value for the Others must be estimated (because it is not mentioned within the source), and than the entire line must be calculated again.

Cfr. (table in English; text only in German): http://theoriealspraxis.blogsport.de/images/WikipediaUmfragen_KORR_20150904__1341.png and http://theoriealspraxis.blogsport.de/2015/09/04/wikipedia-rechnet-falsch-wahlumfragen-in-griechenland/ --77.6.228.74 (talk) 12:06, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Again regarding 31 Aug–2 Sep -- GPO:

@ 12:24, 4 September 2015‎ Impru20 "(→‎Opinion polls: Blank+Invalid around 2% for GPO (not shown in original presentation))"

The estimation 4.2 % for Others, but only 2 % for Blank+Invalid seems still not realistic to me. I guess, the other way around (4.2 for Blank+Invalid and 2 for Others) would me more appropriate.

Cfr. Pulse: 2 % Others, 6 % Blank+Invalid.

Alco: 3.5 % Others, 7.2 % Blank+Invalid.

Metron: 3.3 % Others, 12.4 % Blank+Invalid.

Anyway, the table needs a footnote, which explains, that this value is an estimation only. --77.6.228.74 (talk) 13:21, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

And again regarding 4 Sep -- VoiceNews:

The critique was not correct (confusion of 12,8 % and 14,3):

http://theoriealspraxis.blogsport.de/images/Verwechslung_143__128_20150904__1528.png

However it is strange, that this poll displays 0 % for Others - maybe one reason, why it displays that relatively high values for GA, KKE and LAE (compared with the other polls). --77.6.228.74 (talk) 13:57, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Table "Opinion polls": Parties to mention / Election Alliances / Parties, which not contest

Election Alliance: Potami & DRASI

"Pro-business party Drasi has decided to back centrist Potami in the upcoming elections. Drasi announced on Thursday that some of its members would run as candidates on Potami’s ticket, while Drasi leader Theodoros Skylakakis would be included on Potami’s state list of candidates." [1]

DRASI results in May and June 2012: 1.8 and 1.6 % [2]

Election Alliance: ANTARSYA & EEK

"Antarsya is going to common electoral list with the Workers Revolutionary Party (EEK)!“ (Kostas Skordoulis, cfr. "Kostas Skordoulis, a leading member of OKDE-Spartakos" [3]; OKDE-Spartakos = one of member organisations of ANTARSYA [4])

ANTARYA results in May 2012 and Jan. 2015: 1.2 and 0.6 %; Regional Elections 2010 and 2014: 1.8 and 2.3 % [5]

EEK results between 0.04 and 0.12 % [6]

Poll results for ANTARSYA: 1.4 % (Metronanalysis: 28. Aug.) and 1.3 % (Alpha, [7] - not yet listed within the table?!)

LAOS doesn't contest

„Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS) became the latest party to announce it will not run in the September 20 elections. Ultranationalist LAOS was part of the interim government led by ex-central banker Lucas Papademos between November 2011 and February 2012. However, it did not enter Parliament in January and the party suggested in a statement that the timing is not right for it to run in the snap polls. [….]. Stylida Mayor Apostolos Gletsos, an actor, also said this week that his Teleia party would not participate in the polls.“ [8]

LAOS results in May and June 2012 and Jan. 2015: 2.9, 1.6 and 1.0 [9]

--77.6.228.74 (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Did they endorse anyone this time? --Dorpater (talk) 10:54, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

KIDISO will not contest

Papandreou party KIDISO will not contest: http://www.ekathimerini.com/201108/article/ekathimerini/news/papandreou-party-will-not-contest-in-snap-vote

and it formed also no coalition with PASOK: http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/982833.konstantopoulou-macht-bei-volkseinheit-mit.html --77.6.228.74 (talk) 09:41, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

New coalition formed: PASOK + DIMAR

As of 30th of August, Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) and Democratic Left (DIMAR) formed a coalition for these elections under the name Δημοκρατική Συμπαράταξη (Democratic Coalition). News in Greek. Jimmys Cybertroll (talk) 11:58, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Opinion polling

It seems that opinion polling has started and results of the (one of the) first opinion polling can be seen here. 94.253.179.62 (talk) 12:30, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

---

Cfr.: http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/982828.sieben-umfragen.html and

++ for EfSyn: http://www.efsyn.gr/arthro/aifnidiasmeno-kai-se-stasi-anamonis-eklogiko-soma

++ for Briding: http://www.bridgingeurope.net/nationwide-poll-towards-snap-elections-in-greece---august-2015.html

++ for MRB: http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/982709.griechenland-umfragen-umfragen-umfragen.html

Cfr. further:

http://www.zougla.gr/politiki/article/ka8eti-ptosi-siriza-ke-anel --77.6.228.74 (talk) 09:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC) - +++ not yet listed within the table?! +++ --77.6.228.74 (talk) 21:16, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

---

Further poll: http://www.newsit.gr/politikh/Dimoskopisi-Alco-Ekloges-2015-Sto-0-4-i-diafora-SYRIZA-ND/427706 via http://www.neues-deutschland.de/artikel/983232.umfrage-vorsprung-von-syriza-schmilzt-weiter.html; cfr. http://www.ekathimerini.com/201120/article/ekathimerini/news/syrizas-lead-shrivels-ahead-of-election --77.6.228.74 (talk) 14:20, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

EK percentage in Marc (19 March) poll

EK percentage in Marc poll of 19 March 2015 is 1,4%, not 1,8%

Quantis (talk) 14:04, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

New poll by Palmos Analysis (20 March)

New poll introduced today (20 March 2015) by Palmos Analysis

Quantis (talk) 14:05, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 07 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 10:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

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Next Greek legislative election → 66th Greek legislative election – “Next” sounds weird to readers. – 76.14.51.178 (talk) 00:37, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

@76.14.51.178 and Jenks24: This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:50, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

• Would need to go to a full discussion. "Next" is the format generally in use across Wikipedia, see for example Next United Kingdom general election, Next Australian federal election, etc. Jenks24 (talk) 04:33, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Oppose: "Next" is the usual format generally used in Wikipedia. Numbering is only done when sources in that country do so (as per WP:RELIABLE). So far, no source actually points to the 2015 election being the 65th Greek legislative election, or the June 2012 being the 64th one and so on. Impru20 (talk) 07:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

Oppose per Jenks24 and Impru20. --Article editor (talk) 17:15, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Popular Unity should be third

In my opinion Popular Unity should be third in the infobox. I'm not sure as to what's normally done and perhaps this should be on another talk page but to me it seems illogical that they are listed eighth. Why are they listed by votes not MPs? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.136.168 (talk) 12:29, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Infobox, when the election has not yet taken place, shows parties ordered by the result they got in the previous election, not their current seat allocation. Popular Unity did not contest the January 2015 election and did not exist back then, but were created afterwards as a split from Syriza. As a result, its current seat count does not reflect electoral strength as it does for other parties, as it does not come as the result of popular vote but, rather, as a result of the MPs' decision to join the new party. Placing them as the 3rd political force in the country without it having yet stood in any election and without proving its true electoral strength could possibly be WP:UNDUE, so the more neutral approach of placing them last after all other parties with seats that did contest the previous election is taken. Impru20 (talk) 12:49, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

Could someone add a picture of Nikolaos Michaloliakos?

I think there should be a picture of the leader of the Golden Dawn. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alvarogomez99 (talk • contribs) 12:15, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Alvarogomez99, we cannot use images that 'belong' to someone, this includes most images that are posted on the internet unless they CLEARLY state that they are not 'copyrighted'. Pincrete (talk) 10:38, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Opinion polling graph

Could someone make a graph like File:ElectionMonthlyAverageGraphGreece2015.png for opinion polls for this election? It would be nice to have a graphical representation of the data in table(s). 46.234.78.168 (talk) 19:51, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

I did a first try Wykx (talk) 22:02, 16 September 2015 (UTC)

Infobox election template too wide

The 'Infobox election' template is too wide on small screens. It is okay when there are only two parties side by side, but three makes it take up over 50% of the width. Not sure how best to fix.Jonpatterns (talk) 13:54, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Reducing the picture size is usually the best way to reduce width. However, I personally would recommend using {{Infobox legislative election}} seeing as so many parties are listed – this would be much smaller. Number 57 14:59, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Ditto. Bondegezou (talk) 15:00, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I went ahead and changed it, though some of the info in the infobox still has to be adjusted so it shows up. Here's a link to the template documentation: [10]. David O. Johnson (talk) 18:02, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I see @Impru20: has reverted the change, presumably having missed this discussion. Number 57 18:40, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Uh, I didn't see the discussion here on the issue. I can understand the issue, but I don't agree with the use of the other template, for several reasons:

• The most obvious one, that the current infobox template is the standard used in most elections. It would look just weird for this one to use a different template than others.
• Secondly, the proposed infobox template omits much valuable information, such as party swings (it only shows seat variations), previous election results, the date in which each leader/candidate arrived to the office and, in the case of Greece, the leaders' seats. It also prevents the use of images for political leaders, which has become somewhat of a custom and also a nice feature in many different Wikipedias' election articles (including the English one, too). It also deprives other info such as the total number of seats to be elected, or the seats required for winning a majority, the number of registered voters or a quick redirect to the Opinion polling section/article. And it also seems to have problems with color schemes (i.e. PASOK-DIMAR coalition is shown no colour despite an specific colour being set up).
• I personally find the proposed template worthless in its function. I mean, if the point of that template is just to show a list showing party votes and seats, we already have the full detailed results table for that, with much more information. The point of the infobox is that it's to be a summary of results, but also to be catchy and visible, and distingisheable from the full results section. If it's just a table much like the table shown below, with the additional disadvantage that it lacks data that the full table shows, then just remove it altogether, because that purpose is already fulfilled by the full-fledged table in the "Results" section.
• On the "three parties side by side" issue, well, it has been like this for a lot of years on almost every election article on the Wikipedia, and it has not caused noticeable issues on that time. It was already designed like this when Windows XP was still commonplace, and back then it used to look a lot worser (and when I say a lot, I mean that it made up over 75% of the article's width if three parties were added side by side, and that on large screens). It now ideally spans around 30-40% of the article's width using Windows 7 or over and on a large screen. Maybe for small screens it may span a bit more, up to 50%, but I believe it's something manageable (as I said, before we were used to it being even wider than now), and that it's worth the additional data it allows to introduce compared to the table-like template.

Just my opinion. Impru20 (talk) 19:02, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks looking into the width, I'll have a look at the picture sizes.Jonpatterns (talk) 09:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

I've made template pictures narrower (170x170px -> 140x140px), this has made the template a little narrower. Its roughly 50% of the width now which is better.Jonpatterns (talk) 12:32, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

But you said it was already around 50% before. So the change has not that much of an effect. I believe this issue should be more thoroughly and carefully discussed, not just for this article, but as something more directed to a general standard to all election articles, because we have ones like the UK election articles that use 200x200px images to others that use 150x150px images (i.e. Irish elections). Personally, I find that other articles use larger image sizes and cause no issue. But smaller pic sizes however tend to make the infobox longer (as space for long names is reduced and they take up more space to be shown , whereas slightly larger images help to avoid text-wrapping in a natural way). I'm not in favour of making changes that are only made to help a very particular and specific case in a specific article, as we should try to avoid aesthetical divergences with other articles whenever possible. Impru20 (talk) 15:46, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

I said was over 50% with pics at 170x170px and around 50% with pics at 140x140px.

Here's the difference, at 170x170px:

At 140x140px:

Its possible the standard is 160x150px, as that is used in the examples. Anyhow, I've started a discussion on the template's talkpage at Template talk:Infobox election#Template too wide for small screens. Jonpatterns (talk) 18:31, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

Which operative system are you using? That was the way it used to look back in the Windows XP days. I had it until recently and had to cope with it for years (and surely many users had to do it too), and I acknowledge that it caused me some problems regarding the screen width (and I have not changed my screen then and now). I now use Windows 7 and it looks like this to me:

As you notice, this is about half of what it looks to you, and it is already 170x170px. And by resizing the pics to 140x140px, it only gets smaller and can potentially create complications with the infobox text. I understand your issue, but I don't think it is such a big one. I mean, when the infobox was created, people were used to see it in the way you see it now. Since it is likely an operative system issue (and I assure you it is not the only one) you may consider to update your operative system instead. That would solve your issue not only for this election article, but for every article you come across, and it will also prevent you from having width issues with other aspects, such as tables (let's say, opinion polling tables, or election results tables). Impru20 (talk) 19:17, 22 September 2015 (UTC)

ITN Nomination

Hi everybody. I just wanted to drop a quick line and remind the editors working on this article that it has been nominated to be featured on the WP:MAINPAGE as part of WP:ITN. At this point referencing is the principal hold up to the article being posted there. There is quite a bit of unsourced material on here. If/when that is fixed I think the nomination will move along fairly quickly. Thanks to everybody working to improve the article. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

LAE should be removed from the election infobox

After discussion on the infobox election talk page, only parties which gained seats after the election should be in the infobox. Unless someone has a specific reason not to, I'll remove LAE from the infobox. Orgyn (talk) 18:47, 30 September 2015 (UTC)