Talk:Guarana

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Former good article Guarana was one of the Natural sciences good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
Date Process Result
September 19, 2007 Good article nominee Listed
June 21, 2011 Good article reassessment Delisted
Current status: Delisted good article

guaranine, and caffeine - old postings, new info[edit]

Why are "cognitive effects" under the "weight loss" heading? mlhwitz 18:55, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


http://www.guarana.com/ says

The taste of Guarana is distinctive and unique, and the main reason for its success in Brazil as a soft drink. The main ingredient of guarana is guaranine, which is chemically identical to caffeine.

A few questions:

1. Does "the main ingredient of guarana" mean the main ingredient of the berry guarana, or of the soft drink guarana? (if the former, what is an "ingredient" of a plant?)

It's the main ingredient of the berry.

2. Is the berry a stimulant?

no.

3. Is the berry caffeinated?

Yes. It contains up to three times the amount of caffeine you would typically find in coffee beans.

4. Is the drink a stimulant?

Not necessarily. Orginal Brazilian guarana soft drinks contain up to 0.5% guaranine/caffeine, which is hardly enough to make a difference. Modern energy drinks however contain up to 100 mg per serving.

  • (Really? 0.5% mass/volume would be 1000mg of caffeine per 200mL, which I doubt anyone would consider a weak dose.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.79.5.225 (talk) .

5. Is the drink caffeinated?

Yes.

6. what does "chemically identical" mean? if they're "identical", why do they have different names?

Caffeine is the official name; the name 'guaranine' was given to it by scientists before it became clear that both were identical. The name 'guaranine' survived mainly because it sounds more interesting than 'caffeine'. It's all about marketing.



Are you definetly sure that guaranine molecule is identical to this coffeine molecule? Caffeine molecule.png Can you post some proof of this? Posted, unsigned, at 08:38, on July 21, 2006 by User:Conscious

Deja vu and long time ago. --Jclerman 15
50, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
The NIH and the ACS are sure. That's why their chem databases give it as equal to caffeine, mateine, etc. See, e.g., [1]. Once there, find the "search" box and enter "guaranine" Jclerman 01:42, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I ask this because there is the possibility that you have made your statement based on empirical formula, not on structural formula. The diffrence is that the first one allows atoms to place diffrently and still have the same kind of formula, this is called isomerism (?). For example the ch3 at the bottom left connected to that nitrogen might instead be connected to the one on top and the carbon nitrogen double bond woud be at bottom.

This would alter the connectivity of said methyl group in multiple ways, so the resulting substance would no longer be isomeric to caffeine. For example, this would introduce an additional CH3-N-C-N-CH3 connection (resulting in a total of two such connections) that was not previously there. In effect, caffeine is an achiral molecule, which means it does not have any isomers. By the way, there are no "proofs" in science, only evidence. Aragorn2 19:33, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
What you seem to be describing is an enantiomer, which is only one possible kind of isomer. Moving atoms around, as described, is a form of isomerism, just not enantiomerism.
However, as to the original question of whether guaranine is identical to caffeine, the evidence is here, which shows the chemical structure of "guaranine," identical to that of caffeine above. Chuck 20:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Methyltheobromine is called caffeine when extracted from coffee, theaine (sp?) from tea, mateine from mate, and guaranine from guarana`, am I missing something? Is it some kind of different methyltheobromine in the different versions??? Msjayhawk (talk) 17:23, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


There are a number of different brands quality in comparison with South American brands of Guarana; many of them tasting nothing like traditional Guarana. It would do a wise consumer well to purchase a South American brand of Guarana, preferably of Brazilian origin.

Now this sounds a bit like an ad, how about some neutrality? -- 84.157.139.125 13:46, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Done - MPF 09:34, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

And lets not forget that there are basically two kinds of guaraná-drinks; the soda-flavored one, as the article mentioned, and also something called by the brazilians as "natural guarana", which is not gaseified, very sweet and look rather dark (as in a pop/coke/soda without gas) as opposed to the soft drink that has beer-like colors.LtDoc 17:12, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I can't believe that it is even an issue as to whether "guaranine" and caffeine are the same molecule. If someone was citing the empirical formula, rather than the structural formula... no, that just doesn't make any sense. If you read any textbook about economic botany, you'll see that for a long time, people thought the caffeine in guarana was actually another molecule. (The same goes for tea, in which case they called it "theaeine" or some such nonsense.) It turns out that guaranine is just caffeine bound into some kind of plant resin. This leads to differences in gastric uptake (as compared with to caffeine by itself), which presumably is what led people to think it might be a different molecule. I hope this clears up some of the confusion. Fuzzform 19:33, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


Methyltheobromine is called caffeine when extracted for coffee, theanine (sp?) from tea, mateine from mate, and guaranine from guarana`, am I missing something? Is it some kind of different methyltheobromine in the different versions??? Msjayhawk (talk) 03:35, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Effects[edit]

Sad no one put this is there before. It's not just normal caffeine. Guaranine (natural caffeine in guarana seeds)compared to other forms of artificially induced caffeines is proven to have a 2 and a half times stronger effect on the human body (250%) when in the same amounts. Obviously meaning, for someone drinking something with guaranine, another person would have to drink 250% of artificial caffeine just to keep up.

Needless to say. Drink Bawls. >_<

Could you provide a citation for that? I'll mark that part of the article "disputed" for now. Chuck 20:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
With no source cited, and being unable to find a source for this claim myself, I'm deleting it. Chuck 23:39, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
I think that this claim of anonymous has some semblence of truth, but ultimately it's incorrect. The guarana seeds have more than twice the caffeine content of coffee beans, but other than that caffeine is caffeine, and most drinks have their guarana levels set to put a certain amount of caffeine into the drink to give the right level of kick, so it's largely moot that the raw feedstuff is twice as strong.WolfKeeper 21:17, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm new to this editing thing with wikipedia, but I think a bit of anecdotal data should be added to the discussion, not the article, for I"m not qualified to do the scientific research portion. I'm a college graduate currently applying to medical school, so I'm not a teenage genius, but I deal with ADD every day. I see it as a gift that allows me to take in much more than others. I can say definitively having tried a few different brands of energy drink with Guarana that the affect it has on my ability to focus is unbelievable. Now I know it's chemically identical to caffeine, but perhaps where the research may want to look lies in complementary properties and chemical cofactors involved that have not been sufficiently studied. This stuff works wonders on the mind for me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.197.115.2 (talk) 20:34, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

guaranine is . . . ?[edit]

Please give a reference to this statement:

<< and a unique combination of slow-release caffeine, theophylline and theobromine collectively referred to as guaranine. >> Jclerman 01:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Scroll up to see the structural formula. Jclerman 02:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Since ChemId gives this [2] where guaranine is a synonym of caffeine it's warranted to edit that sentence in the article. Jclerman 01:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

more on composition, now from Dr.Duke's db[edit]

Dr. Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases

Chemicals in: Paullinia cupana KUNTH ex H.B.K. (Sapindaceae) -- Guarana


Chemicals (alpha order, concentration given*)

ADENINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
ASH Seed 14,200 ppm; DUKE1992A 
CAFFEINE Seed 25,000 - 76,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
CATECHUTANNIC-ACID Seed: DUKE1992A 
CHOLINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
D-CATECHIN Seed: DUKE1992A 
FAT Seed 30,000 ppm; DUKE1992A 
GUANINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
GUARANINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
HYPOXANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
MUCILAGE Seed: DUKE1992A 
PROTEIN Seed 98,600 ppm; DUKE1992A 
RESIN Seed 70,000 ppm; DUKE1992A 
SAPONIN Seed: DUKE1992A 
STARCH Seed 50,000 - 60,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
TANNIN Seed 85,000 - 120,000 ppm DUKE1992A 
THEOBROMINE Seed 330 ppm; DUKE1992A 
THEOPHYLLINE Seed 570 ppm; DUKE1992A 
TIMBONINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
XANTHINE Seed: DUKE1992A 
(*) ppm = parts per million
    tr = trace

Guaranine has always been a Mixture[edit]

Not for the ChemId Plus and ACS (CAS numbers) databases. Scroll here up to see the structural formula and also in the chemical databases look for the names and synonyms. Enter guaranine in its search box and read the findings, the formulas, the code numbers, the references, etc. Similarly, you'll also find that a synonym of caffeine is mateine. There is no doubt since the structural formulas are identical. Jclerman 03:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
See also Raintree Tropical Plant Dabase: Guaraná Jclerman 04:06, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Jclerman, your article link to ChemID Plus yields the following page:

Either you have remained idle too long or an unexpected error has occurred. Return to the main query page and resubmit your query. If you feel this is an error, please send an e-mail to the ChemIDplus team.

Sorry, the NLM issues dynamic pages that expire after a short time. The following is a better approach that should be valid always.

The links below take you to the URLs where to initiate searches. Just enter guaranine or any other drug name in the search boxes.

Composition[edit]

Deja vu: The abstract herewith referenced DOES NOT MATCH THE STATEMENT GIVEN:

<< Also, guarana seed extract has a slower absorbsion rate than other sources of caffeine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9657057&itool=iconabstr&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_Abstract%20slow%20absorption%20rate >>

Please, provide an appropriate citation matching the intended edit or abstain from editing in unsourced info. Jclerman 04:20, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

A deja vu reference to an abstract that does not match the statements. Same as seen many times in the recent past in the guarana and guaranine articles. Now also similar statements were also introduced in one of the energy drinks.Jclerman 05:05, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Please put the information related under "composition" into a table. As it stands, it is difficult to read (unless one has seen the website it came from - btw, the link should go directly to the page about guarana, not to the main website). Fuzzform 19:36, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

List of brand-name drinks containing Guarana[edit]

They are gradually accumulating; there's 24 now. Anyone else think this is getting a bit out-of-hand? Is it really necessary? - MPF 01:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I would suggest another article about the drinks, leaving a brief reference in this article about the plant. Jclerman 02:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

On the back of Bawls bottles, it is stated that it contains natural guarana extract. Their website states differently however. Should it be added to the list of Guarana containing beverages? - AlexMcKinsey 22:02, 08 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting. I haven't seen a bottle. Which one lists the correct info, the bottle or the website? Jclerman 06:39, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the paragraph should simply mention that guarana is an increasingly popular ingredient in so-called "energy drinks," or soft drinks with caffeine and guarana. Then later, near the bottom of the article, a header List of Guarana-Containing Drinks? or something, and just list them by maker and soda name. That would at least be cleaner. Plus, here's another one: Jones Soda's Whoop Ass. Listed on the side of the can (yes, that's a can of whoop-ass). Gaviidae 16:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Took Gaviidae's advice and made the list into an actual list towards the bottom of the article. Also added Bawls to the list, because the debate of whether or not it contains the flavour or extract is silly. Both sources say it is natural, and the only way to get natural guarana flavour is to use the extract. La Bicyclette 00:34, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Doesn't the FDA require ONLY that natural refers to the original substance not being synthetic? See [3] Jclerman 02:45, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, natural means not synthetic. The FDA is pretty worthless as a regulatory body, and I certainly wouldn't trust anything that says "natural" on it. For example, vitamin water is less than 1% juice, and yet Glaceau is allowed to call it "all natural", when clearly it is just a concoction of chemicals dissolved in water. Not to say that it isn't quite tasty, though. The point is that the FDA and their ideas of what is "natural" is meaningless here. The list of guarana drinks is also way out of hand. There are literally thousands of products that contain guarana, and wikipedia should not be a place to advertise them all. Fuzzform 19:49, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Links[edit]

I changed many of the sources to reference-style footnotes, but dunno if it's still right. Deleted one paragraph under diet because it said "another study in 1997" which actually was the same study as referenced earlier, and added info from another link which didn't name the study, only mentioned it. Added one reference of my own; tried to find as many PubMed numbers as I could-- nutrition journals don't seem to be listed. Could someone check on all this?

Also, should wikipedia be giving advice, even if (or especially if) it comes from some website (example "drugs.com recommends")...? Gaviidae 16:41, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Page title[edit]

The title is "Guarana" yet the spelling "guaraná" is used prominently throughout the article. Should the title be changed to reflect that, which I'm assuming is the proper spelling? (messedrockertalk) 09:44, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that it should be simply guarana. This is an english article and accents aren't used in English.WolfKeeper 17:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
Dictionary.com lists only guarana.[4]. Unless somebody has an English dictionary that lists it with the diacritic we need to change it back.WolfKeeper 18:01, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

"accents aren't used in English"... really... I've even seen "latte" (the coffe with milk) spelled with an accent in English! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.157.206.111 (talk) 14:58, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Guarana vs. Cola[edit]

Ok,so Guarana is more comsumed in Brazil than most cola drinks. you know why,because Guarana has less sugar,actual more nutrition and the Diet versions of them has the same taste as the originals. Diet cola drinks have a funny aftertaste,so people choose Guarana Diet instead of Cola Diet.Guarana e muito melhor do que coca-cola eu sei porque eu sou brasileira!!

Bold text[edit]

Anecdotal Aphrodisiac Bold text' I'm not sure why this subject is being avoided(?) here, but there is both evidence and experience that guarana is a sexual stimulant, at least for males. Herbal Viagra if you will. I started looking stuff up on it AFTER experiencing this, so it wasn't a placebo effect. Jacobus7 00:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

GA review[edit]

Ok guys, I placed this article on hold waiting some fixes.


Headlines

Per WP:HEAD:

  • External resources should be renamed to External links or Further reading and moved to bottom.
References

Please try to use {{cite web}} and {{cite book}} templates when using references.

  • Per WP:CITE, book sources should contain: the name of the author, the title of the book or article, the date of publication, and page numbers. Other sources needs |accessdate= parameter or "Retrieved on 2007-09-14."

These sources should be WP:FN:

  • i.e. generally regarded as safe.[5]
  • Guarana contains different amounts of caffeine, theobromine, theophylline, and other alkaloids, compared to coffee, tea, mate, or cocoa. Cf Duke's Phytochemical and Ethnobotanical Databases [6].
  • Chemicals in: Paullinia cupana[7]
  • Duke1992a: Duke, James A. 1992. Handbook of phytochemical constituents of GRAS herbs and other economic plants. Boca Raton, FL. CRC Press.

The currents #4, #8, #11 and #16 footnotes sources should use {{cite web}} template or full reference about title, author, date, publisher and accessdate if possible.

If fixed, I can probably take a last look at it. Carlosguitar 08:00, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

All of those problems have been fixed. MessedRocker (talk) 01:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the edits, this article is almost GA, but I need to know if Guaranine and Caffeine is really same thing, if not we need a clarification about it. Carlosguitar 10:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I quote from the article, "Guaranine, theine, and mateine are all official synonyms for caffeine." That state is complete with a reference to a database ran by the University of Wisconsin-Madison. MessedRocker (talk) 11:19, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
  • GA - I want to thank you MessedRocker and everyone whom helped to meets GA criteria. Thanks guys. Carlosguitar 15:55, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Guarana in Britain[edit]

Guarana is appearing in more and more British products, firstly in competitors to Red Bull as an alternative or accompaniment to Taurine, and also in water (Volvic Revive) and menthol gum (Airwaves Active). It is being marketed as a "Pick-Me-Up" additive - I came to this article to inquire about what it is and why it is suggested to be a Caffeine/Taurine/Hangover Cure/Natural Alternative?

Can someone who knows clarify this use of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.184.242 (talk) 23:59, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging[edit]

This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 11:19, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

probably-false controversy[edit]

at least one commercial source, a ~20 second slot for "5-hour energy" connotes guarana negatively; an announcer discussing alternative stimulant drug packages says "tsk tsk" in regards to guarana consumption.

there seems to be a complete lack of evidence suggesting "tsk tsk" as being an appropriate assessment of/response to guarana consumption.

however, discussion of this false controversy is probably necessary here to clear up the commercial propaganda, as guarana seems to have potentially healthful properties if anything.

--Harlequence 08:37, 14 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Harlequence (talkcontribs)

Well I'm a caffeine sensitive person I can can tell you the effects of any caffeine, whether it be Guarana based or not, are rather horrible so I'm surpised there is no mention of this in this article. Caffeine in any form is also addictive. Also no mention of the mandatory warnings that are required by law here in Australia on these energy dirnks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.101.105.182 (talk) 04:43, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"Drinks containing guarana" section[edit]

Is this section even necessary? It's just a list of energy drinks; just about everything has guarana in it nowadays. So either (preferably, to me) just get rid of the section or describe just in general the drinks in which guarana is found - a single, simple sentence would suffice - "Guarana is found in almost all "energy drinks" as well as many nutritional beverages and supplements," or have a comprehensive list and link to it, say, page would be called "List of soft drinks containing guarana" or something. The former would be easy, the latter hard; I don't feel that I should just delete the whole section because it seems unnecessary and cluttering to me. Perhaps if a few people express agreement and nobody objects, or better yet, someone more "bold" can do it. I'm just bringing it to attention because this article could potentially be a feature and that section is just an eyesore. Well, that's my opinion, anyway. Mr0t1633 (talk) 17:46, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

It's really not... it's unnecessarily detailed and entirely unreferenced (and I agree it's an eyesore too). I just removed the entire thing without prejudice. – ClockworkSoul 16:44, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is necessary ![edit]

I am looking for information on the What we need is not just a series of brands, it is also an article explaining the types of trade guarana is involved in. Energy drinks use a conventional hybrid type of guarana, traditional guarana is exported in powder to Europe and possibly the Sates, and preserves biodiversity. An article explaining the characteristics of those two supply chains could be useful. Does anyone know about the dates of first comercial development of guarana ? Pwjohnson (talk) 12:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

South America[edit]

"Generally, South America obtains most of its caffeine from guarana."

I don't have access to the book used as source, but I think this conclusion is far-fetched, considering that the largest producers of coffee in the world (Brazil, Colombia) are in South America. Besides, yerba mate (another caffeinated drink very popular in Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, and parts of Brazil) is more widely consummed that guarana.

raises blood pressure[edit]

http://www.livestrong.com/article/258876-what-is-the-guarana-effect-on-the-heart/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.190.133.143 (talk) 23:27, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Article Contradiction[edit]

This article states that Guarana seeds contain almost 5% caffeine and are used to make a tisane.

The tisane article [5] defines Tisane as a non-caffinated drink. This seems to be a contradiction.

And I don't think anybody would appreciate word games of saying the Guarana contains guaranine, not caffeine. ArtKocsis (talk) 07:33, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

So follow the best available sources, cite them, and just fix it.LeadSongDog come howl! 12:53, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

A myth[edit]

"The colour contrast when the fruit has been split open has been likened to eyeballs; this has formed the basis of a myth." is pretty useless without saying anything about the myth. Jimp 08:01, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Review article on caffeine[edit]

I thought I would share.

  • Schimpl, Flávia Camila; da Silva, José Ferreira; Gonçalves, José Francisco de Carvalho; Mazzafera, Paulo (2013). "Guarana: Revisiting a highly caffeinated plant from the Amazon". Journal of Ethnopharmacology. 150 (1): 14–31. ISSN 0378-8741. doi:10.1016/j.jep.2013.08.023. 

Blue Rasberry (talk) 16:18, 26 September 2014 (UTC)