Talk:Gun violence in the United States

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Former good article Gun violence in the United States was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Statistics have become a soup[edit]

The sourcing and citation of statistics on homicide have become a mishmash, bouncing around year to year and source to source, to the point that anyone reading with any attention will ask themselves which, if any, are accurate.

  • 2013, 11,208 firearm homicides, CDC, second sentence, first graf, lede.
  • 2012, 8,855 firearm homicides, UNODC, first sentence, second graf, lede.
  • 2010, 11,078 firearm homicides, NCHS, fourth sentence, second graf, lede.
  • 2015, 13,286 firearm homicides, Gun Violence Archive via BBC, first sentence, third graf, lede.
  • 2012, 8,897 firearm homicides, FBI, first sentence 'Homicides" section

It would look far more encyclopedic if the article stuck to _one_ count for homicides, and one reliable source, and one particular year throughout - obviously, the most recent statistics are the most relevant, except when discussing historical trends. The FBI has been accumulating violent crime statistics for more than seventy years, and their numbers have never been called into question (at least, outside of the tinfoil hat crowd). They are the gold standard. The FBI just released their 2015 data a week ago, and unless we are trying to suggest wildly varying firearm homicide counts in a very narrow number of years, the most current data seems to me to be the best. As well, the FBI numbers are the most consistent over recent years - see https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/crime-in-the-u.s.-2015/tables/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2011-2015.xls , rather than the wildly varying counts from other sources. If firearm homicides had dropped from 11,078 in 2010 to 8,855 in 2012, it would have represented a gigantic drop in the actual rate, which would have been front-page news coast to coast. Likewise if the number had increased back up to 11,208 in 2013. It's fairly obvious that the other sources are counting total homicides in inaccurate ways, rather than firearm homicides. Again, the FBI expanded homicide data shows the most rational dataset, particularly against the rates with growing population. And in the balance, it provides a far more consistent and encyclopedic attention to details. As the numbers above show - we are only confusing readers with these different sources. I would propose cleaning up the article with the FBI figures. Anastrophe (talk) 04:16, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree that we shouldn't just present conflicting or inconsistent statistics without any explanation. But different sources may use different methodologies, which doesn't mean that one is right and the others are wrong. The section "Research limitations" gets into that issue. Rather than stripping out statistics from sources that are otherwise considered reliable, it'd make more sense to compare and contrast them.
Do you know of a source which rates them, or which calls the FBI's numbers the "gold standard"? Felsic2 (talk) 23:57, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
This source, Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review (2004) , in a chapter titled "Data for Measuring Firearms Violence and Ownership", actually says

"The National Crime Victimization Survey, which relies on self-reports of victimization, is an ongoing annual survey conducted by the federal government (i.e., the Census Bureau on behalf of the Department of Justice) that collects information from a representative sample of nearly 100,000 noninstitutionalized adults (age 12 and over) from approximately 50,000 households. It is widely viewed as a “gold standard” for measuring crime victimization."

Of course the NCVS isn't perfect. But neither is the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports, which are compiled from voluntary submissions by local LEO agencies, and which excludes entirely some types of incidents.
This complexity makes me think that rather than cutting information we should add more, to explain the difficulties in gathering these numbers. Felsic2 (talk) 00:09, 29 October 2016 (UTC)

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"Thoughts and prayers"[edit]

Page watchers may be interested in "Thoughts and prayers". Thanks, --Another Believer (Talk) 20:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Mass shooting section need[edit]

There needs to be a section about mass shootings tthat brings up multiple variations of the term and it's definition. The Gun Violence Achieve is only one source. There's on entire article for mass shootings. I assume there might as well be one for here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States Graylandertagger (talk) 23:19, 6 November 2017 (UTC)