Talk:Hajime Sorayama

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Untitled[edit]

Why are "anime" and "manga" mentioned in comparison? They don't seem to have anything to do with the subject. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Theodore Kloba (talkcontribs)

Article neutrality[edit]

There's a number of neutrality issues in this article, such as:

"He does ASFR drawings of female pin ups and erotic art that are super realistic and also draws robot women, cyborgs and other illustrations of humans and animals."

Unless "super realism" is an art form, this should be reworded to be more neutral, as the realism can be debated and is not a judgement for Wikipedia to make.
...well, I'd like to reply by pointing out that the phrase 'super realism' has, in fact been coined to refer to this form of art...the subject matter, although of course subject to artistic vision, is presented in a form so detailed and authentic as to defy one's eyes to recognize it as a work of art, rather than a representation of that which exists...some would consider it 'photorealistic' and that isn't a stretch, when the subject could have been posed so...but when the subject doesn't exist, and is created of imagination, to create a representation on paper of such accuracy and realism goes beyond what can be real to 'super real'.

"... while simultaneously raising the level of skill and craftsmanship in the field to new heights."

So he has affected the craftmanship in this field in general? Then this claim would definitely need a source.
...you simultaneously exaggerate and minimize, sir...of course no one man can simultaneously increase the talents of those around him in any field...but he can raise the bar, and show them a higher level to which to aspire...and by so doing, they may very well improve.

"He is also described as one of the most significant erotic artists of the 20th century."

This bold statement is unfortunately currently unsourced.

"The pinup art of Sorayama is delicious and erotic, blending the soft contours of the female form with the industrialized shiny metal "skin" of the humanoid "android" that is bound to both arouse and shock the viewer. Sorayama's "real women" pinups are sexy, intriguing, and seem "real to the touch". The robots, and combinations of the two, are shiny, glistening, and sleekly attractive."

According to whom, exactly? The article should not make judgements about deliciousness, sexiness, reality and attractiveness at least. Although I can personally see the artistic skill in these pictures, people do have different views on attraction in art.
...regardless of your personal viewpoint on Sorayama's work, the skill with which it is produced is beyond reproach...this man has a remarkable talent for illustration, and he chooses to ilustrate that which fascinates him...if you find depictions of nudes to be unattractive, or the idea of cybernetics disturbing, or fetish/bondage repulsive, I would suggest that you're viewing the wrong artist to suit your tastes...this is not meant in any pejorative sense, it's merely an observation that you seem to attack the simple praise that is given to the artist, for no other reason than that You personally find his work unattractive...in this respect, you are offering your opinion to a forum that is primarily comprised of fans of the artist...rather similar to rolling a stone up a hill, you will achieve very little in the attempt...we know what we like, and whether or not you agree is of no concern whatsoever.
Spyder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.142.8 (talk) 12:01, November 18, 2006

-- Northgrove 08:53, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

....To reply to certain concerns above. I do not know how the term "super realism" got in here; it may be better termed "hyper illustration" as is often used by collectors and critics. There are numerous reference and a google search of "Hajime Sorayama" will show how highly regarded his talents are. Beyond that Sorayama has many peer artists, museuems, fashion designers and media people who vaunt his skill and art. For example, artist Ron English is quoted as describing Sorayama as a combination of Dali and Norman Rockwell. Bob Guccione of Penthouse fame, and himself a talented artist, included Sorayama works for over 9 years in monthly editions of Penthouse from about 1995 to 2004. Mr. Guccione states that Sorayama's art form redoubles his belief that sexuality can be depicted as a high art form. Mr. Hefner's Playboy TV did a Sorayama special on their series Sexcetera in 2005 that included an interview with his longtime representative Ms. Yamamoto. Many peer pin up artists have gone to the trouble to discuss Sorayama on their websites so those descriptions are out there to help in this regard. Sorayama received the highest design award that may be conferred by Japan on a project involving technology and his art. Nike awarded Sorayama top honors in a recent design competition. Disney used Sorayama to design "Future Mickey" and there are many others who seek out his art or collaboration. MOMA and the Smithsonian Institute Museum both have Sorayama art in their permanent collections. WEAM museum held its first erotic art show with Sorayama art in 2008 and in 2009 ongoing Opera Gallery has chosen to display his arts internationally. Bubwater (talk) 15:19, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Vargas vs. Vargas[edit]

"Sorayama is also often described as an imaginative modern day Vargas."

Vargas Links to Vargas (Comics) . I think the link should be to Alberto Vargas

Rich Mielke 14:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Merge with Sexy robot[edit]

Sexy robot should simply be merged into this article. Hajime Sorayama is the person known for that phrase. --George100 09:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it should be split apart again. Robert Abel and Associates created an award winning computer animated commercial in 1985 for the American Can Council featuring a "sexy robot". I don't know if Sorayama was involved in the design or if he was just ripped off. But it provided a substantial exposure for the concept. K8 fan (talk) 05:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Sub-pages are fine with some short references here. Bubwater (talk) 15:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
If ever there was an article called Sexy robot, it passed into oblivion thanks to the bright-minded editor who replaced it with a redirect to this article, destroying it, so any talk about "merging" them is meaningless. In this discussion there is no indication whatsoever if the merge was done or not (it was, though it is not obvious. The result was lossy: I am in agreement with K8 fan: Sexy robot should better be split apart again. --SciCorrector (talk) 22:19, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Tautology[edit]

Humanoid "android" is needlessly repetitive.Sochwa 18:59, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Legal issues concerning Sorayama[edit]

Note: The following unsourced, dubiously-sourced, and copied or pirated text scattered within the body of the article was hampering it. I have moved it here for further elaboration / discussion. --SciCorrector (talk) 22:54, 25 March 2010 (UTC) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Within the Notable Works are a sub-category of 33 or potentially 84 Sorayama originals / master images that are embezzled and or pirated arts that public may assist to recover for reward on case by case basis. The public may be able to help find some of these images for a reward that www.sorayama.net will email terms on a case by case basis. Some of the pieces of interest at this time are as follows:
1. Embezzled / defrauded Image No. HS94 Contact www.sorayama.net for details.

2. Embezzled / defrauded Images No. 2001.16 embezzled original was recovered about Jan. 2010 and documented that the pirated aspect still exists in potential counterfeiting including ongoing contempt issues of the federal court system. It is wasting tax payer dollars while accelerating frauds during the court sessions; Image No. 2001.21 is an embezzled and pirated piece that is still open to recovery should someone come across it. [1]

3. Any Sorayama pieces designated WP or Working Proof that come with a Certificate of Authenticity from a gallery or publisher that have sold such pieces on line and or by mail that is documented in an acceptable format--contact for details with your details about the piece.

4. Any Sorayama piece with a Certificate of Authenticity (CoA) from a Bane gallery or Bane publisher where the CoA is dated and signed between 2007 and 2010 time frame.

...

H

In 2007, Japanese artist Hajime Sorayama obtained a nearly $2-million judgment (????), including $1 million in punitive damages, against Robert S. Bane, his publishing company, Robert Bane Ltd., and his gallery, the Tamara Bane Gallery. In 2009, a federal bankruptcy court refused to allow Bane to discharge the debt, citing a pattern of intentional and pervasive fraud perpetrated against Sorayama. BREAKING NEWS: 15 January 2010 Bankruptcy Appellate Panel rulings is concluded concerning trial court and bankruptcy court rulings against debtor. The trial court Judge Florence Marie Cooper and subsequent bankruptcy court rulings stand in place under the review and scrutiny of higher courts (citing United States Bankruptcy Appellate Panel of the 9th Circuit: BAP No. CC-09-1108-MoPaH).[2]

In The Venture Bros. episode "Past Tense," a character named Mike Sorayama builds robots nearly identical to those depicted by Hajime. Sorayama is thanked in the episode's credits. In the South Park Series a short scene contains the world famous sexy robotic image. Star Trek series used Sorayama to design the female borg Romulan. He did art for the T3 Terminator movie/T3 Comics, Spawn 1997 and is now working on a new movie project. Perhaps, most famous is not a female form but the first generation of Sony AIBO robotic pets (first of their kind) which received the highest Japanese government award. Sorayama's art is in the permanent collections of MOMA and the Smithsonian Institution.[1]

The late 1990s to present day 2010 are a busy period for Sorayama. In addition to books, limited edition lithographic prints and giclees being published, Sorayama's futuristic and Shunga-style work was serialized monthly in Bob Guccione's Penthouse magazine and graced the pages of Playboy and other magazines. He consulted as a conceptual artist for the films, Brain Dead (movie) (1992), Time Cop (1994), Spawn (movie) (1997), Night Watch (movie) (1997), and the HBO TV series, Perversions of Science (1997). In 1995, he designed a mechanical warrior for the science-fiction B-movie, Space Trucker. His renderings of the female form appear on Aerosmith's album "Just Press Play" and has been engaged to do art for female T3 Terminator as well as the Star Trek series borgified female forms. Southpark, the animated show, has used Sorayama art in one of their episodes.

In the late 1990's, Sorayama was approached by the Sony Corporation to design an organic robotic form. It became the famous "AIBO" dog, the first [artificial intelligence] pet[1], which received Japan's highest design award and was acquired by the Museum of Modern Art.[2] and the Smithsonian Institution for their permanent collections. All this occurring at the turn of the century as Sorayama's art grew in popularity.

In 2005, Playboy Sexcetra made a TV special about Sorayama including an interview with his longtime agent Ms. Yamamoto. During 2002 to 2008 Sorayama had many well attended art shows at different venues; One Man Show at Gallery GGG, Tokyo and Osaka/Japan,Group Exhibitions at Ginza Recruit Gallery in Tokyo, a USA venue one was at the international Opera Gallery NYC location and the other at WEAM in South Beach, Florida. In 2009, Sorayama was one of 25 Japanese artists to be commissed by Nike to create a tribute to the company's White Dunk. An interview with Sorayama can be seen at www.whitedunk.com

Sorayama's most extensive publishing project, a new book, is planned for release in late spring 2010.

Removal of longest established Official Website from External Links by new user/contributor who left behind a third party fan site and a younger official website[edit]


There is a need for wikipedian / admin help as a re-posting is made into External Links and to help learn about the nature of its removal(s) between about 2011 and 2016. One of the most vital longest standing Official Websites (1998 to ongoing) in External Links was removed leaving behind only a third party fan site and a younger Official Website which are fine except it creates an unbalanced selection of External Links and also removes what is more likely than not the most extensive resource about the art / artist Hajime Sorayama. The removal appears to have been potentially done for commercial backlink reasons / other reasons by an unknown third party backlink promoter or gallery promoter. It may have been an error by not leaving reasons for the removal in this fashion. We plan to re-post the External Link "Official Website born circa 12/1998" with a link and need guidance about it from wikipedian or wikipedia staff.

The External Link "Official Website born circa 12/1998" leads to the website(s) of the longest standing and ongoing Official Website(s) representing the Artist Hajime Sorayama for about a quarter century. I have partly used this firm for many reliable neutral facts for years because it is holding one of the most extensive “expert” knowledge bases/archives about the artist, copyright info and artworks. The owner of Artspace Company Y, LLC / Artspace Company Y LLC is the only person/firm we know of to date mentioned in a Federal government associated setting being recorded as an “expert” on the subject of Hajime Sorayama arts by a high ranking Federal Government Official of the USA. The wayback machine includes but is not limited to archives that also show the favorable nature of this Official Website in context of reliable information about the subject matter and need to be included in External Links area. Bubwater (talk) 06:55, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I think , have to read full talk page as well as deep research on this matter , then I will come to comment on it. Kalamya (talk) 07:41, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

This explains why long standing External Link target website (sorayama.net) has been removed and restored. Information available within World Wide Web (including the wayback machine / Internet Archives) evidences that this link http://sorayama.net/sexy-robot-blog.html was the longest standing sorayama.net related outbound link on this page until the interception of this page by a new unknown user/new editor who removed it without Talk Page comments nor signing these page(s). As a fan of Hajime Sorayama we too prepared the link as a data source and restored it (http://sorayama.net/sexy-robot-blog.html ). However, an unknown new editor/new user(s) had changed the long living link (sorayama.net) removing it from External Links and also replaced the same with a less reputed web page which, itself, has collected data from previous long standing link that was removed. I am astonished by seeing that unknown new younger contributors appear to be very promotional (one URL at footnote number “3” is self-described as a Wikipedia backlinks promo professional), making far reaching unqualified changes and that they do not sign nor make Talk Page comments. Footnote number “3”: The 2 youngest URL(s) within External Link(s) possibly placed numerous superscripts/footnotes and associated it to a footnote numbered “3”. The URL link(s) associated to footnote 3 maybe authored some key area contributions into text of first two paragraphs (or more). The drastic changes appear to be of commercial dubious natures sending out a Red Flag for more research. Maybe this went unnoticed simply because changes were made without any comment on Talk Page dating back to about 2012. Specifically, footnote “3” changes the complexion of the article. At same time it is promotional rather than neutral. This substantially by associating large parts of the totality of the Wikipedia article to a dubious footnote “3” related commentary/interview authored in 2012. Text is centering the article on a backlinks promo firm in Indonesia that appears to leverage Wikipedia for purposes mainly other than neutrality. The backlinks promo firm in Indonesia who conducted the interview is not an established art critic for any art magazine of merit and has little experience with the artist other than a brief interview with added colorful rather than neutral commentary. The URL is not fact checked nor sourced with references. Also, notable is a clear reference to “The Peach Colored Encyclopedia” which has no records as being a published book or maybe did not exist or maybe something entirely different. This book aspect needs to be better qualified; as it sounds more like a failed attempt to publish a problematic book. A more startling hyped aspect is the title of the URL and its first paragraph in context of the usage of the words “airbrush”, “legend” and the artist use of the airbrush. Note there are standard well sourced third party art critic(s) articles from major well established art magazine(s) that would add substance or counter-balance neutrally this URL at footnote number 3; a most recent one is currently authored in 2016 about art of Hajime Sorayama that is comprehensive and scientific. By including “as is” this URL (related to footnotes numbered “3”) in External Links re-writes historical fact for promos and may mislead readers about the technical constructs and tools e.g. paintbrush, pencils, airbrush etc of the artist / illustrator. Note there are good sources of evidence available and A DVD entitled “Sorayama Secrets Revealed” narrated by Dru Blair to demonstrate the actual use of the paintbrush, pencil, airbrush etc which, while vital to the painting, is quite different than how it is being portrayed by this URL at footnote “3”. Also, they just did it on the Japanese version of wikipedia as well in Exteranl Links. https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A9%BA%E5%B1%B1%E5%9F%BA

So now whoever did it is new user and most likely not disclosing a commercial related conflict of interest. Purpose appears to be to debase or devalue the long standing official website. I suspect (but do not know 100%) it is a person who has conflict of interest to possibly buy sorayama.net None of this removing aspect should be on neutral fact based article of wikipedia

https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%A9%BA%E5%B1%B1%E5%9F%BA Another way to understand is to actually view artist Sorayama over the course of about 3 to 5 hours as he creates a work of art by himself at such timeframe that is of substance in context of this URL. Bottom line is there is a need for more detail to determine if the contributors who removed/changed aspects of the longest standing Official Website (sorayama.net / sorayama.com) failed to declare a possible conflict of interest to Wikipedia and entered an encyclopedia article for purpose of creating unbalanced/commercial purposes re-write of article outside of Wikipedia neutral article authorship methods. It is better to restore the previous version associated to sorayama.net and potentially investigate the newer links that are now included next to sorayama.net within External Links of the page as well as observe/delete the low quality Talk comments from here. Kalamya (talk) 07:29, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Please note that you should not remove article talk page comments, instead giving editors a chance to express their opinion. If the comments are obviously offensive, warnings may be issued, and discussion with the editor in question is encouraged. If the editor continues to post offending/unconstructive comments, you may wish to report such instances to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents. What I do not understand about the article is how 2 websites may both be considered official - official should only apply to 1, shouldn't it? Oh, and please assume good faith. I have removed the template spam from this page, and, as it appears that the issue in question has been resolved, I'll close the edit request. Regards, VB00 (talk) 13:49, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Having a look at these, the http://sorayama.jp/ site is copyrighted to Hajime Sorayama and is offered in two languages (so I'm assuming would be the official site in both languages), but is quite new. The http://sorayama.net/ site has been around for a long time, but is copyrighted to Artspace Company. I'm inclined to assume that the site copyrighted directly to the artist is the official site at this point in time, whatever may or may not ave been the case in the past. - Bilby (talk) 23:33, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
On the grounds that it doesn't make sense to keep two competing "official" websites for the one person, I'm pulling the older site, based on the copyright issue. - Bilby (talk) 09:30, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
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  1. ^ http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_results.php?criteria=O%3AAD%3AE%3A22591&page_number=1&template_id=1&sort_order=1