Talk:Halfdan Ragnarsson

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A fact from Halfdan Ragnarsson appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 November 2014 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Halfdan Ragnarsson was one of the leaders of the Great Heathen Army?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2014/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Halfdan Ragnarsson.

Wikipedia

Untitled[edit]

This merge I am proposing is pretty obvious, but as a (guest) user at en:wiki I'm doing this the (hopefully) formal correct way instead of just performing the merger myself. Finnrind 20:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would seem this isn't so obvious as I thought. I have revertet my own proposed merger with Hvitserk and added text reference instead. Finnrind 11:42, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hvitserk=Halfdan? (discussion moved from User talk:Briangotts and User talk: Finnrind)[edit]

I noticed a link from you to one of these pages. I have (tried to) propose a merger, could you please check and see if the correct procedures have been applied (or if you share my opinion that the merger is obvious, just perform it - it is not much text to move I'm afraid). Thanks in advance, Finnrind 20:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I may have been to quick here, this might be another proof that what everybody knows isn't necessarily true. I've skimmed the Saga of Ragnar and his sons just now, and to my suprise I did not find one instance of Hvítserkr being named Halfdan. The article in norwegian refers to a passage about Ragnar in the fragmentrary annals (but does not say which), and skimming the version from CELT I couldn't find anything there either. This could mean we will have to rewrite the norwegian (and the german) article...

Nevertheless, I would still opt for a merge, on the basis that tradition confuses these possibly different character. A joint article, stating that the identity between these two characters is unsure, and further which sources/traditions aplies to which name, would give an easier access to correct information that the present two stubs. You have a similar case here with Olaf the White and Amlaibh Conung. So, sorry that I jumped to conclusion mainly based on norwegian wikipedia, I would appreciate your advice as to whether I should retract this mergingproposal or not. It is not as if I have an agenda here, I just thought these articles had been overlooked. Regards, Finnrind 21:55, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have been confused by these two articles for some time. I am aware that some scholars think they are the same person but their stories seem quite different. What source can we cite to show they are identical? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 21:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have a strong preference one way or the other, though I would lean to keeping the articles separate because it's likely that they refer to different people (Halfdan was king in Jorvik, and Hvitserk reputedly died in Russia). Both need a lot of work and sources added. It's been a while since I read Ragnar's saga. Are Halfdan and or Hvitserk mentioned elsewhere? Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 00:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm really not an expert on this, just sort of stumbled over the Hvitserk article and thought it to be an orphaned left over. I do not know which from which sources (the apparently many) who claims an identity between Halfdan and Hvitserk have based their opinion. The solution in norwegian wiki (explaining that this might be two sepraterate persons in one article) or having two articles which bort states that there might be an identity, both have their pro&contra. The easiest way to deal with this now is IMO to leave thing as they were, with additional crossreferences. Accordingly, I will retract my proposal for merger, and make crossreferences. I would be grateful if you would look over the two articles after I've made these edits. Apologise for the inconvenience, thanks for your help. Regards, Finnrind 11:37, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, no problem! Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Out of habit from no:wiki, where it is easier to keep track of things and discussionthreads together, I answered you on my own page. The things I proposed there I have already done... Sorry:-)Is it all right with you if we copy our discussion (this entry excluded) from these two pages to one of the discussionpages of the articles concerned. It could be helpful (hopefully...) if someone else comes along and actually decides to improve the article(s). Could be something for the Norse history and culture project I guess ;-) As I wrote on my own page: Apologies for the inconvenience, thanks for your help. Finnrind 12:54, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, let's put the discussion on the talk page for reference. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 13:41, 12 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Be wary of all articles created by User:Wiglaf about Viking kings! They are all highly POV, highly conjectural, and he does not have any sources to back up his wild theories.

I am in the process of trying to correct some of his mistakes, including this article. --dllu 17:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:NPA and WP:CITE; a careful review may save you a great deal of trouble in the future. Actually User:Wiglaf was one of the most knowledgable user and consistently backed up his articles with well-sourced citations. I will be watching warily for "corrections" of his work. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 17:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Question from an anonymous reader[edit]

Moved from article.

An anonymous reader asked "[H]ow can his sons be real but not - without ragnar himself his children wouldnt have lived therefore ofcours ragnar himself was real". That seems like a very reasonable question. Angus McLellan (Talk) 03:22, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Because some (not all) of the "sons of Ragnar" are reasonably well-attested historically, including Ubbe, Ivar, and Halfdan, as brothers who led the Great Heathen Army that landed in Britain in 865. Björn Ironside has a few attestations, and his friend and ally, Hastein, yet another alleged son of Ragnar, has several. The problem is that the father of these men is not recorded. So Ubbe, Ivar the Boneless, and Halfdan may have been brothers, but their father was not necessarily Ragnar. Most likely, Bjorn was not a brother to any of them, or to Hastein, and his father was probably not named Ragnar. Indeed, if the Ivar (Ímar) recorded by the Irish is the same man, the father he is given in a late chronicle is not named Ragnar (and he has two other brothers mentioned in Irish chronicles who are not identified as Ragnar's sons in Norse sagas). There was a Ragnar who participated in the attack on Paris in 845, making him about the right age to be the father of men invading England 20 years later. But a Ragnar who was king of most of Scandinavia, as the sagas make him out to be, is almost certainly a fiction. Spiderboy12 (talk) 04:41, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]