Talk:Hampton Court Palace/Archive 1

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Photo

I took the big photo... I have one of the clock tower too if anyone thinks its worth uploading. (ricjl 10:51, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC))

Do it - sounds great! Mark Richards 14:48, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)
sigh. alright then (ricjl 17:40, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC))

Maze

Any chance of a photo of the maze? Mark Richards 17:58, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Fraid not. It's an extra £2.50, and we had to get back coz my sister's baby needed some sleep...
I don't know why I told you that. (ricjl 11:43, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC))
Good enough reason! Thanks for trying! Mark Richards 17:11, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I went in at the beginning of June you misunderstand me!(ricjl 20:07, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC))

Photo2

Nice one on deleting my photo Wetman. (ricjl 10:53, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC))

No really. :( (ricjl 18:32, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC))

Location of the Palace

East Molesey is on the other side of the river in Surrey. The palace gets its post from there but is not in East Molesey or in Surrey and has never been. Before 1965 it was in Middlesex and now it is in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames in Greater London. MRSC 09:39, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

To clarify this again. Hampton Court Palace is in the part of the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames that was originally in Middlesex. It is not in Surrey and never has been. There is confusion because Royal Mail deliver the mail for the palace from East Molesey, Surrey which is on the other side of the river and so its postal address includes post town of East Molesey and the former postal county of Surrey. This does NOT make the palace in East Moseley or Surrey! Streetmap this map shows how the KT8 postcode (red line) forms a protrusion over the Surrey border (grey line) to include the palace. LB Richmond upon Thames map. This map from the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames shows the palace in the borough and East Molesey and the station on the other side of the river and the county boundary. MRSC 11:37, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

It may well be on the other side of the river but as I live in East Molesey I do think a know where Hampton Court is. The people of Molesey are proud to have such a big attraction in their vilage. The tourists come from Hampton Court Station IN MOLESEY and then go across the bridge to the Palace IN MOLESEY. You can even look on the HCP website and it says its address as Surrey Molesey. Waterloo Station on the South Bank in Surrey apparntly but then Houses of Parliment on the other side but still in London.
Please leave the location as it is. Hampton Court railway station is indeed in East Molesey and East Moseley is in turn in Elmbridge and that is undisputed. The river however is the border with the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames and the palace is in that borough and not in Elmbridge. The postal address proves nothing as in the UK the post town system gives places in one town an address with the name of the town their post comes from but does not make them part of that town. Other examples are Chadwell Heath which is in the post town of Romford but is not part of Romford and Denham, Buckinghamshire which is in the post town of Uxbridge but not part of Uxbridge.
How do you know all this anyway. I say again I live in Molesey and Hampton court is in molesey. Staines on north side of river but in surrey. Rc
The fact you live in Molesey is irrelevant to the facts. But for what it's worth, I used to live in Molesey as well and can confirm that Hampton Court Palace has never been in Molesey or Surrey. It is, and has always been, on the other side of the river. Majts 02:04, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Straw poll

Considering the above please vote here for the location of Hampton Court Palace:

  1. MRSC 22:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
  2. Majts 01:57, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  3. It's in London Borough of Richmond upon Thames, Greater London What I find funny is that it never ever ever was in Surrey, looks like Middlesex to me, even in olden times: Changes to Surrey's boundary Surrey does not cross the Thames at that point. Tarquin Binary 22:54, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
  4. The dash - dotted line in the Thames in this map is the boundary. Andreww 23:52, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  5. I'm only half convinced we aren't just feeding a Troll here... In any case, I vote to agree that a place in Richmond upon Thames is indeed in Richmond upon Thames. Sapient 16:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
  6. Greater London, don't even know why there is a debate on this matter; it's hardly contraversial. Y control 13:07, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  7. Hampton Court Palace is not, and never has been in Surrey; admittedly it is very close to Surrey, but that doesn't mean that it is there. It is North of the river and is in Greater London. I don't see why its address needs to be listed as East Molesey, this only serves to confuse the issue; just have it as London and then a postal-code. Y control 13:06, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Very likely trolling, yeah. Not a bad one - it's on my watchlist now and I don't do southwest London. Damn :) Tarquin Binary 00:09, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Vote, schmote!

Look, chaps, I was born in Hampton Court (though nowhere on the palace grounds) and I know for a fact that the palace is one side of the river and that the suburb (or, if you prefer, "village") of East Molesey is on the other side. [Face turns red, blusters:] So don't argue with me, OK?

However, I do notice that on this page, the address is clearly given as East Molesey, Surrey. This comes as a considerable surprise to me. This site is admittedly not the official one, but the official one is remarkably badly designed and I have no appetite for investigating it right now.

HC is in Richmond or in Surrey. Conceivably, it's in one for certain purposes and in the other for other purposes. So the thing to do is not to rest on one's prejudices and statements of "the obvious" for some daft voting procedure, but instead to find out the facts. After all, facts don't always accord with popular belief. I shall thus be bold and suggest scrapping this probably well-intentioned but nevertheless silly vote and instead asking for evidence that HC is in either Richmond or Surrey.

Hoary 11:12, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes this vote is silly, however I got bored of reverting a persistent editor so wanted something to back up my reverts as the next stage will be to try and reason with that editor and if that fails, get them blocked.
If you read all of the above properly (before the vote section) you will see that the Surrey thing is anomaly of the way Royal Mail deliver the post. MRSC 11:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Repeated here for clarity:
There is confusion because Royal Mail deliver the mail for the palace from East Molesey, Surrey which is on the other side of the river and so its postal address includes post town of East Molesey and the former postal county of Surrey. Streetmap this map shows how the KT8 postcode (red line) forms a protrusion over the Surrey border (grey line) to include the palace.
In the UK the post town system gives places in one town an address with the name of the town their post comes from but does not make them part of that town. Other examples are Chadwell Heath which is in the post town of Romford but is not part of Romford and Denham, Buckinghamshire which is in the post town of Uxbridge but not part of Uxbridge.
I've also noticed that a compromise was offered mentioning Molesey's claim and that was rejected. And evidence was offered above, in the form of the Surrey-Richmond boundary, which follows the line of the Thames at that point. (It's different when you're trying to pin down woolly London districts that have little more than psychological definitions, but administrative boundaries are pretty definitive.) Tarquin Binary 13:01, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Gotcha. Well, there you are, this just goes to show the effects on the brain of having to spend an entire Saturday afternoon and half of Saturday evening in meetings and interviewing people: returning to the computer, one just sees something of interest and writes a screed without actually bothering to scroll up and see what preceded it.
The Molesey postal address is a moderately interesting anomaly, though. I suppose it could be dismissed as mere trivia, but it's streets ahead of most of the stuff in the article on, say, The Emancipation of Mimi. So I suggest adding it, irrespective of its "compromise" value. If Mr I.P. becomes a bit happier, so much the better; if he doesn't, tough luck -- it would be included for the benefit of that huge percentage of potential readers who live in neither Surrey nor Richmond.
But really, votes are perhaps better reserved for burning and truly scientific questions, e.g. (i) nature versus nurture, and (ii) the identity of the man whose genome was mapped. -- Hoary 14:16, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Votes (or at least some means of gaining consensus) are required precursor of Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. Its just getting it out the way in case this person persists. MRSC 14:23, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

A breakthrough?

It seems Greater London is acceptable to all concerned although LB Richmond is still objectionable to some. I can live with this, at least it is not an error. MRSC 15:24, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

look at this website okay and you will see that hampton court palace's location http://www.hrp.org.uk/webcode/content.asp?ID=197 See?

How many more times? That shows the former postal county. Read that article and you might understand the situation. MRSC 19:06, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

As many times as i can get it into your retarded head Herbert670

Please be advised that no personal attacks will be tolerated on wikipedia. MRSC 12:18, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Don't care. Herbert670

Gift to Henry VIII?

The palace was appropriated by Wolsey's master, Henry VIII

In Margaret George's the The Autobiography of Henry VIII the Cardinal gives the palace as a gift to Henry VIII, I have no idea how accurt is that I only know that the author does a lot of research for her books (she wrote about Mary of Scotland and Cleopatra), any ideas? DelftUser 09:40, 2005 July 27 (UTC)

I believe I've read that Henry put a lot of pressure on Wolsey, who came to realize that if he didn't present the place to the Dear Leader as a spontaneous token of his undying love, he might be kneecapped, shot in the back of the head, encased in concrete, and dropped into the Thames. Hmm, no, I might have confused some of those details. Time permitting, I'll look this up. -- Hoary 14:21, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
Having studied this I can tell you that Henry made it clear he liked the palace, and being a man that one did not piss off Wolsey felt that he had no choice. But it benefited him in that he kept Henry happy, and looked generous at the same time. So technically a gift, but I imagine Wolsey felt a little trapped. Grunners 12:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC)